Building Your Village: How Volunteers Transform Autism Parenting with Jennifer Celeste Briggs

DJ Stutz  00:14

You're listening to Imperfect Heroes: Insights into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in An imperfect world, and I'm your host, DJ Stutz. Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of Imperfect Heroes: Insights into Parenting. And today, we are continuing on with our theme of moral development in our kiddos, and we are taking such a great point of view, I guess is what we'll say, on how we help kids who maybe are on the spectrum or have some other neurodiversities, and how we help them as parents, how we can teach our children, maybe typical children, to help move forward, and then to how we work with our own kids. You know, our little, spicy kids that are going through life and helping them to be the most successful. And my guest, Jennifer Celeste Briggs, has a book out. She has a whole program out on that. Before we get started with that, though, I want to remind everybody, first off, follow, like, subscribe, and if you feel so inclined, as I hope you do, we'd love for you to leave a five star review. Yes, five stars is the appropriate number of stars. Yeah. And we'd love to hear what you think about the program. I read all of the comments, I respond to them, and we have a good time. So anyway, there we are, Jenny, let's get started. I guess before we get deep into the topic, just tell us a little bit about yourself and about your daughter, Sarah, and what you have going on.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  02:07

Yeah.  I am a massage therapist and Alexander Technique teacher by trade. And on the one hand, that's very separate from my career as a parent, and on the other hand, I feel like those things did still inform my parenting or how I took care of myself and how I approached my kids. My daughter, Sarah, has special needs and is on the autism spectrum, and we didn't know that she had autism right away, but we knew that something was different, and she was delayed in meeting all of her milestones. When she was four, she was still non verbal, except for making the first sound of every letter of the alphabet, but she wasn't putting them together. We had struggled for years to get her to eat enough. She was diagnosed as failure to thrive, and even though eating was getting better when she was four, I would still give her ice cream anytime she wanted, because that's calories, and so that's right, exactly when she was four and a half, I was feeling kind of desperate, like we had tried everything, and there must be something more. And what if, my main thought was, what if we could make eating better for her, so that then she was getting the nutrition that she needed, and maybe that would help with language? However, that had never led me to want a feeding tube for her. I felt very strongly about trying to avoid that, which may or may not have been the right path. You know, it led to a lot of stress. But the other hand, we did avoid a feeding tube, and she did begin to eat more easily over the years, and now she eats easily and healthily and well. But when she was four and a half, and I was feeling desperate, I thought, Oh, well, let me try getting trained at the Autism Treatment Center of America to run a sunrise program, which I had heard about in college years years prior. And I just knew it was a really big undertaking, even though I thought it would be amazing, but suddenly, when it was me, it seemed really daunting, but I arranged for the childcare my sister in law came from Seattle to Pittsburgh to stay with my husband and Sarah. I took my daughter, Amy, who was a baby at that time with me, and my mom came with me to Western Massachusetts to do the training, which was a week long, and I learned how to work with Sarah differently, to facilitate language, to meet her where she was without forcing anything to know when she was ready to connect and when she wasn't, when to ask for something, when to not, how to encourage eye contact, how to ask for volunteers and train volunteers, and how to set up a focus playroom, if that was how I wanted to do it, which I did. And I got back from the training and begin working with Sarah, and right away, her language started to come out more than it ever had before. So that was very exciting.

DJ Stutz  04:49

Wow!  That's really a big deal. And like, what a blessing that somehow you've heard about that back in your college times, and then when the need came, it was brought forward to your mind. You know. Know, oh, yeah, wait, I remember this. And then you were able to find the resources to go and get that training and to have that support. An amazing sister traveled literally across the country to help you out, and to have that support of your mom. And what a great thing now too, Jen, I know that you also, in addition to that wonderful support, have developed a core of volunteers that have come in and helped you out. And so maybe, can you talk a little bit about that?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  05:32

Yeah, well, part of the training was, how do you reach out into your community? What are you asking for, and how are you going to train them if you get them. So, yeah, I started by sending an email to my friends in Pittsburgh and family anywhere, and friends actually even overseas, just anyone that I could think of who maybe would know someone in Pittsburgh who might be interested, and anyone in Pittsburgh who might be interested. So not necessarily close friends, but just acquaintances, neighbors, things like that. And I got responses. I was asking for either someone who wanted to be trained to work with Sarah, and then I wanted two to four hours a week, plus an extra two hours once or twice a month for a team meeting. And I also said, if someone would rather volunteer with Amy and come provide childcare so I can be with Sarah. That would be helpful. If someone wants to cook a dinner and drop it off, that would be helpful. And I got volunteers for all of that, actually, which was super helpful. Some of the volunteers were people I knew. Some were not people I knew, but that I asked friends and acquaintances to forward my email. So one email went to drama students at a university, and one person was interested, and then he became a volunteer, and he told all of his friends what he was doing, and then three of those friends became volunteers. So it was really remarkable how things would connect that I didn't necessarily know it would go that way.

DJ Stutz  07:00

That is amazing. And doesn't it just speak to the goodness of people. We hear so much negative and all of this, you know, we're so divided and all this kind of stuff. And yet, my experience, and now it sounds like your experience is too that there are so many good people out there with a desire to just help and so your ability to connect with them. I know that a few years that I was actually working with the school district in Jefferson County, which is just outside of Denver, and I was working with very at risk kids, big time at risk kids, and somehow the word got out to the school of the mines, and again, college students who wanted to do, I mean, they did fundraisers to buy supplies that the kids didn't have, and they would come in and do little engineering projects with these little kids. And the kids loved having them there. They loved the hands on with the little engineering project. So I think that we have an ability to find people, if we'll just ask and reach out and give them those opportunities. Another thing that you said, though, that I thought was really key, is you trained them, and you actually had team meetings. And so I know of other families. I have some in my own family who have children with various disabilities, and they'll be like, someone will call, Hey, can we help or let me come over and help you with this or that? Okay, thanks. And it just wound up being almost more work than it was worth. You know, they put things in the wrong way, or she'd have to go looking for her dishes if someone you know, was helping her with the kitchen or something, and so I love that idea. Can you talk to us a little bit about that training, your meetings, how they responded to that? And then what does that look like?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  08:53

Yeah, so when I was learning how to run the program and how to work with Sarah, that was also teaching me the different parts that I needed to convey to the volunteers, like one idea or premise of the sunrise program is joining, and that is what you do if your person, who you are wanting to support, is doing something repetitive and maybe exclusive. So they're not really taking you in necessarily they're not ready to interact. For Sarah, she wanted to open and close a lid sometimes. And so instead of stopping that as seeing that to a barrier to connection, that was actually my clue about how to connect with her. That was bridge. And so I would explain that to volunteers and say, for instance, if she is sitting and putting candles in between her toes. We had a plastic cake and candle toy. Oh, cute. Then you sit across from her, a few feet away, so she can look at you easily, at your face, if she wants to, but you're not crowding her. You take some of those candles, or if she doesn't want you to have candles, you take some crayons or markers and you sit and you. Having a good time, putting them in between your toes. And you're really having a good time. You're not just imitating. You are learning from her about why this is fun. And the only difference is that you have this extra eye of attention to say, Oh, if she looks at me, I'm ready. I'm going to say something or do something, or make an expression, something that will be different, to celebrate her looking. And then if she keeps looking, well then I could keep going. So in my early days with Sarah, a lot of it was opening and closing lids of Play Doh containers. And if she would look at me, then whatever kind of play doh I had, I would hold up and say soft or hard, and I held it next to my mouth so she could be taking in my face and the thing at the same time. And I wasn't trying to work on all of the English language. We were just working on the one word. So that is how I would talk to my volunteers. At the beginning, I would explain, this is how you join if she's exclusive. This is how you build a tiny, tiny thing if she's interested. This is how you back off if she's not interested again. And I would have them work with her, play with her for 15 minutes, and I would watch them through a camera that I had set up. And then we would talk, and I'd say, How did you feel about that, or what were you thinking about? Or, hey, that went well, here's an idea for next time. And then I'd have them go do another 15 minutes, and then we'd talk again, and then they'd leave, and then their next time, they would do a half hour session and we'd talk, and maybe then another half hour, and then we talk, and they would build up to doing a two hour session, and I would still observe them for at least 15 minutes every time, and then we would talk at the end of here's what went well. Here are some ideas that you could do differently. What did you think? What did you feel? What are your questions?

DJ Stutz  11:39

I really love that. And this is for our listeners, this is a process that is effective beyond autism.  There are several other things, even ADHD,that kind of a process really does help with those kiddos. So I really love that you're talking about that process and then how to engage kids. So I'm still, you know, I'm just helping out at the local elementary two days a week, and I'm working with these two kids specifically, but I have some others that I'm helping. But most of my time, six hours of the day, is with one of these kids or both. But they have other issues that are going on within them, and that is the process, though, that really helps and works so that when they get upset or when they have to walk out of the room, they just walk out of the room. And I've got one little guy, he'll just go under a bench that's in the hallway, and so I'll just sit there and let him. And sometimes people ask questions, oh my God, he's just relaxing. We're good or and depending on their reaction. And this is why I love how you're training your volunteers. You're teaching them to pick up on their reactions. So there have been times where I've laid down on the floor not far from him, mimicking that behavior. Other times he wanted. So I take one of the jackets off of the hooks. You know, they have their all their little jackets on hooks out in the hallway and kind of cover it so that he had more dark and it was more quiet for him, and that seemed to be what he needed. And another thing that I love that you're doing, sorry, I'm just in a love fest here, but you're giving our volunteers. They're not just volunteering. And how lucky for me that I get to do this for you, but they're learning so that they are going to have opportunities. We all have opportunities in our lifetime to come across people who are neurologically different for whatever that is, it could be a ton of different things, but you're giving them skills now that they can learn in other situations, maybe another part of their lifetime that these are really going to benefit not only your volunteers, but now the people that they're interacting with as well. So when you think about that ripple effect that's going on, that's really something that's quite impressive.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  13:56

Yeah, they all did get so much from it, every day, every week, every month, when we would have the meetings, especially, I would just be overwhelmed emotionally, basically, with the amount of love and creativity and kindness coming to our family from people, some of whom didn't even know us before. I'm still bowled over by that, and yet they also would continue to share how meaningful it was and life changing for them. So in my book, The last section is entries by some of the volunteers sharing about what it meant to them to be a volunteer.

DJ Stutz  14:30

Yeah, and that book is all part of your website and in learning more and how to connect with you and all of that. And so I would highly recommend, and I know that they can get it like on Amazon. What else did I see on your website, Amazon, Barnes and Noble... 

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  14:45

And Book Shop.  So any bookstore should be able to order it for someone, and it's available on Kindle, and at some point, hopefully, by the time this airs, it will be available as an audio book read by me.

DJ Stutz  14:55

Oh, fun. That's so exciting. And another thing that you can do too is ask your local library if they have your book, and then if not, say, can you get that for us? And so now it's getting into libraries where more people, even more people, can do that. I know I've done that with my book, which is just a kid's book, but it's been fun having people ask. I've had even libraries call and say, Hey, I just had someone request that we buy your book. Oh, great. Well, let me tell you how to get it. And so that's another way that we can help spread the word on some of this. So let's go into now you have another daughter as well. And typical, I don't think any of us are really typical, but we all have our own little things. But one of the things that I think is really interesting is how you had volunteers who were willing to help engage with her a lot of times, when you have a child in the family that is not neurotypical, you know, that child would get a lot of attention, and the other kids kind of, Isn't that nice, you know, what is that for me? And so what are some of the things then that either you did or your husband or your volunteers with your other daughter?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  16:11

Well, she was so little when we started, she was six months old when I did the training, not even I did my first training. So she really needed somebody with her. Then as she got older, then some of the volunteers I had were other parents who would bring their young child, and then they would play together. And some of them were adults, and they were able to give Amy such beautiful one on one attention for the hour or two that I was with Sarah, because I could, I could sometimes hear a little bit. I think that was a really, really wonderful sort of unintended benefit from doing it, and from her being the age that she was where she did need somebody with her. And in many ways, I think I also got more time with her. When I had volunteers with Sarah, I needed to spend the time of serving the volunteer, but then then I could really be with Amy and focus just on Amy.

DJ Stutz  17:05

And that is such an important point. And I love that you brought that up, that we're addressing the whole family, that organic whole family, and not just focusing in on the one kiddo. I know, my niece, she has six kids, and her oldest is the one that was very, very effective. Unfortunately, she passed a couple years ago at age 14, but that was all her kids knew, was, oh, that's just Brinley. That's just who she is. It's funny, she wound up with three girls and then three boys, so her second oldest daughter wound up having to take on a lot of responsibilities, sometimes with if Brinley was having a hard time, whatever that may be, feeding responsibilities or bathing responsibilities, or getting so and so to bed or whatever, and she took on a lot of that. And one time she sat and she was talking with her daughter, and her daughter was kind of, you know, the typical oldest, and you know, she was kind of struggling a little bit with that, and she talked and said, Well, what, what is it that you want to do with just me, like, what would be meaningful to you? And they were old enough that she could have those conversations with her, and that family was very physically active. They did triathlons, they did all of these things. And mom would get up in the morning and just did this exercise video thing or group, and she says, I want to do the exercising with you. And she said, Well, you know, I do it at 6am and she did, like she got up on her own, and that meant something to her. And so what's interesting is that for every kid, you know, each kid is different, and what might be meaningful for the one daughter, and it was, it was something completely different with the next, and so making sure that you're seeing the individuality and the needs of those kids, and then being really present and aware of those opportunities And those needs that are there. And I think too, how you bring in your volunteers, your volunteers are learning about those as well? Yeah, absolutely. So Okay, talk to me about what are some of the things that when, maybe because I know that you went through a training with all of your volunteers. So what are some of the things then, like, how would that first meeting go for you?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  19:22

First I would probably talk to them for guessing a good 20 to 30 minutes of just hey, here's what a sunrise program is, even though most of them had come to us because we'd already corresponded on email if they didn't already know what we were doing, but I would just go over it again, of like, hey, when you're in the room, you follow Sarah's lead, And if she doesn't want to do something, you don't have to feel like you did anything wrong by suggesting it. The idea is just okay. Well, what other thing could I suggest if she seems ready to interact? So we talked a lot about just the basic frame of mind that I wanted people to be in when they would go in there, of not judging Sarah, but also not. Judging themselves, and to really not censor any crazy idea they would have. Because sometimes, if you were joining Sarah with something repetitive and then she looked at you, you had a nanosecond to figure out what to do that was different from what you were already doing. So maybe, if we were doing something with glue sticks on paper, and then she looked at me, maybe I would have to go, like, put the glue stick. Like, what am I going to do? And that might feel so silly, but you have to just be okay being silly and doing things that you think might not make any sense at all, and being creative if she wants something, and we don't have it in the room, because the room was pretty simple. We only had a few toys, but we always had pencil and paper, markers, scissors, tape. We had some games that had little pieces. So with that and your imagination, well, you can make almost anything. So if she wanted a crib, and we didn't have a crib, well maybe we make it out of blocks or a small one out of the card pieces, or maybe we draw one, or we spread out a blanket and pretend that's a crib, all sorts of creative ideas. So that was also what I talked to the volunteers about. And sometimes their training would involve them sitting downstairs at my desk with the camera rolling and watching me play with her for 15 minutes. Then, then I can show them so much more than maybe what I could explain with words,

DJ Stutz  21:20

Right. And I wonder how, like the kind of the reception that you got, I would always be really grateful for that. I know what I'm doing now. Oh, I never would have thought of that whatever. And so they seem to be pretty open to taking and investing that time and that instruction and then having that as a background for them to be more successful?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  21:41

Yes.  I think they very much appreciated it, because none of them had any background training. And actually, I think that was good, because what we were doing was a departure from what is often, or has often been done in terms of ABA, which is applied behavior analysis. And I know there's a range of how people work with that, and we never did that with Sarah. So I can't directly speak to that. I know that some families found sunrise after they felt that ABA didn't work for them. So I wanted people who didn't know anything so that I could say, Hey, here's what to do, here's how I want you to be. Here's how I want you to be with Sarah. And they really, really appreciated that input, because they otherwise would have felt lost. And here I was saying, Oh, here's your map. It's actually quite simple.

DJ Stutz  22:24

Right. And I think too, when people may have a background in early childhood development or in special education or whatever, they come in with, oh, this is what I do. And this is, you know, kind of where people who are just there to volunteer and to be of support, they're more open, I think sometimes to suggestion rather than No, this is what I do. Does that make sense? Yeah,

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  22:49

I think I was always impressed by Sarah's speech therapist that had been coming to the house to work with her since she was three. Part of why we hired him is that the way he worked, in hindsight, was very much in line with Sunrise. But I was also very impressed that he was open to my feedback and training. And I don't know, get every specialist being that way. And so he was the person who maybe had been trained to do something other ways. And then I would say, Oh, well, you don't have to feel like you need to do XYZ, or how about this. And then he often would very much appreciate the freedom to let go of some of that training and use his creativity.

DJ Stutz  23:29

And it sounds like, from what I'm hearing, one of the things that he was doing was actually validating mom's insight. We know our kids really well, and I remember when my kids were really young, and I had this pediatrician. He was an older guy. He's probably my age I am now, but he was a great pediatrician. But one of the things I really loved about him was I would take my kid in and he'd say, So, what do you think is going on? And I remember at the beginning, I said, Well, you're the doctor. I don't know. He's sick. Well, what do you think it is? And well? And so it got to where it took a little bit for me to feel comfortable and really sharing, because I was just this little young mom. I started having kiddos at 22 which is a nice age to start, but just thinking you're the expert. And he really taught me so much about being a mom, because he validated what my insights were on my kids. And so when you have a speech therapist or occupational therapist or whatever that you have coming in, and they validate mom and your insights into your child, that really, I think, tells me that they're really interested in truly helping the kiddo, but also helping that organic piece as well. Yes, absolutely. And so I think that really brings in the importance of not just interviewing and organizing your volunteers, but the specialists that come in. And it's okay to say, let's move on to the next one, if they're not that good fit, and to have the confidence to do that. Yeah, so that's all pretty cool. So, so we're talking to families, and maybe it's autism, or maybe it's something else that's on the list there the ABC lists, of all the acronyms we love to put out there, of different things. But what would be maybe the first thing you would tell them to do, if they are just wondering, what do I do with this kid? What would be their first step?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  25:25

I think just observe their kid without feeling like they need to hurry up and teach them anything. Because sometimes we're so invested in some outcome that we think we need, that we're not actually taking time to be present and notice what is happening. One of the things that I had to learn to do was actually to speak less. To help Sarah learn to talk. I had to create a vacuum and be quiet so that then she could dress herself more.

DJ Stutz  25:53

That's so true. And I think trusting yourself as you are, spending that time with them and making those observations ever the teacher. So I would journal. I would write things down. Write down my observations that I'm making and noticing. Well, this thing seemed to set her off. But was it really that thing? Note, the time, note where you are, no, was there someone else involved in the room? Was it sensory overload? Maybe or or sensory deprivation of things you're too quiet and not enough of what they're because every child is individual in what they need and what their reactions are, and that's one of the things. And the second thing for me, and as I coach parents and work with them, don't worry about being embarrassed. Oh, my kids doing this, you know? Or, Oh, we're having the meltdown in the cereal aisle, yeah, or they're screaming at the park, or whatever it is. Don't be embarrassed about what your child is doing. Let's just make the observations. Look at what's going on and so we can get an idea of what's really happening, and then really concentrate on your kid and what your kids needs are, and sometimes that need may be back off, let them handle it on their own and learn how to problem solve and learn how to manage. I want that swing, but someone else is on it and know when to step in, but still giving them that opportunity to try to work that out on their own. And I would say that works for neurotypical and neurodiverse kids.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  27:28

Yeah, I agree. And then something I'm still learning, I don't know if we ever stop learning these things as a parent,

DJ Stutz  27:36

right? That's why I titled the podcast Imperfect Heroes is because nobody's ever been perfect, and we're all still learning. And in fact, it's so funny. I was at a family and friends gathering for a family event yesterday, and I was talking to, and she's even older than me, this lady I was talking to, right? But I was saying how I wish I had known when my kids were little, the things that I know now, now that you know I'm an old fart, but I wish I'd understood things that I thought were so important, they really aren't important. And then there were other things that I should have spent more time on. I should have maybe been more patient, or maybe given them a little more room in certain areas to do their thing, and I didn't. And so that's part of the goal of Imperfect Heroes, is to kind of help some of the people with those young kids understand some of the things that us all farts. We look back and we think, oh, yeah, didn't need to worry about that. Or I wish I'd had known this, and especially with my little spicy guy that we had, if I'd have known then what I know now, I would have handled it very different. I mean, he's turned out great. We're buds. Life is good. He's police officer and doing all of that now, and he still sometimes will struggle with that big ADHD piece that can be hard for him, but he's doing great. They just had their third baby, but going through that early on and just panicking over things, but there were so many things that I just was more worried about than I needed to be. And so I think that what you're doing in with your book and your website and reaching out and helping other people who are trying to do the same things, that you're really making a difference in the lives of not just the people you help directly, but that ripple effect. It's not tangible. You can't really put a value on it, but you're really helping others and letting them move forward with that. So I just want to thank you for the work that you're doing. It's so important, and I'm glad you're going on podcasts and doing events. I saw on your website. You have different events that you set up, and you're really making a difference. So thank you for that.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  29:51

Thank you. And yeah, that's my hope, is to help parents feel less alone, especially if they're having that moment of crying in the kitchen and. Thinking that things will never get better, or that, oh no, they just totally were the parent that they never intended to be, and they feel like the most terrible person ever. Well, make space for those feelings and let them move through you, and then you can regroup and come back and you get to keep trying, and you can still make a difference, even if you are super imperfect. And I also I write in the book and in my weekly updates about my emotions and my ups and downs and struggles, and that is often what people reach out and tell me was helpful, because sometimes people don't feel as comfortable sharing that publicly or even just with someone else, and everyone's going around thinking it's just them. And then here I come, and I say, blah, here is all of me and my humanness and my foibles. And then you say, Oh, hey, you just articulated what I feel, too. Thanks for putting it out there, because now I know I'm not alone.

DJ Stutz  30:59

Yeah, for sure, I know there were days like my place to hide was my closet, with this little walk in closet, and all the clothes made it quiet. And there were times I could see all these little fingers under the door money. It was like, Oh, they're alive. We're good. I'll be out in a minute. And you just kind of have to sit and take a breath and think, Okay, I'm all right. I'm all right. I'm convincing myself I'm all right, you know. So our joke was mom coming out of the closet, man, a whole different thing at our house, but it was, but that was my getaway. So we all have these moments. We all have these stresses. I'm failing, I'm terrible, and why are my kids doing this? And why are they arguing? And why am I always getting phone calls from my little spicy kids school? And it's what did he do now and and then we adopted later on with childhood, been in foster care for years and had had horrible experiences. And you know who what you do now, and how defeating that is, and how awful that is. And so to hear, I think other people say, Yeah, been there. I know what you're going through, and you're okay, you're okay, and so I just really appreciate that you're doing that. So Jenny, let's talk for a little minute about how they are going to find you.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  32:21

Sure my website is watching Sarah rise.com and I'm on Facebook and Instagram as Jennifer Celeste Briggs, or Jennifer Celeste Briggs, author,

DJ Stutz  32:30

I love it. I love it. And so we're going to have, of course, all that information is just a click away, down in the show notes, so you can just click on it and go find her and learn about all of these amazing, wonderful things. And two, maybe even if you're interested in volunteering, or how do we set up a volunteer group for families that are like yours, or whatever, that you can ask those questions too of her. You don't have to have a child on the spectrum or otherwise spicy to do that.

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  32:59

I think, yes, that's true. I'm happy to talk to other parents. I'm not officially trained to train other parents, but I can share my experience. And if that's helpful, then that's great.

DJ Stutz  33:10

And they can register to get that weekly insight from you. What that it's in their emails?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  33:12

Yeah, I write an update every Sunday. It's really just, Hey, what happened in this past week? And it started as being very, very Sarah focused, and oh, what new things did she do? What did she say? And then it started to evolve more as also looking at what was going on for me, and now sometimes I'm also sharing what is going on for other family members, or sharing about the book, or the audio book, or whatever. Sometimes more reflective than others, sometimes more just Hey, Sarah was in a piano recital or something like that.

DJ Stutz  33:51

Fun, fun, fun. I love it. I love it. All right. Well, before you go, we always ask our guests the same question, and that is, we know that there are no perfect parents, but some parents do just seem to be a little more successful than others. How would you describe a successful parent?

Jennifer Celeste Briggs  34:09

I love this question, and I have been thinking about it because it's so easy for parents of any kid, whether with special needs or not, to evaluate their own success or worth as a person or a parent based on how their kid is doing. And I think it's really important to separate those things. When I would go into the Sarah vice room, which is what we call our sunrise focus room, my main goal was, how was I going to show up? That was a successful session. It didn't matter Sarah could be completely not wanting to connect the whole time, but if I stayed present and really was enjoying my time in there with her, or maybe she was really wanting to connect, but every idea that I had felt flat and she didn't want to do it, well, did I let that bog me down? Then maybe I would feel less success. Or did I keep saying, Oh, let me try something new, then I can come out saying, Oh, well, I showed up in this way. I did my best. That is how I'm successful. And I think that's true, even if you don't have a focus room of How present are you? Are you cleaning up your own emotional junk so that you can be there for your kid clearly and cleanly and listen to their emotions? Well, maybe that's your success for the day.

DJ Stutz  35:22

What great insight. And you know, that's kind of the heroes, part of our imperfect heroes. You know, we're all imperfect, but what makes us heroes? Sorry, that's my dog. But what makes us heroes is that being present, showing up, gathering new information, finding ways to maybe have a new idea that you hadn't thought of before, and looking for those resources. That's the heroic part of the imperfect heroes, and so you just brought it, a wonderful, great point. Jenny, thank you. Jennifer Celeste Briggs, thank you so much for being a part of this and sharing your insights and the things that we can do, either to help families we can be a volunteer, or how we can maneuver things in a way that is most beneficial for all of our kids. So thank you very much, and everybody join us again next week for another episode of imperfect heroes insights into parenting, and until then, let's find joy in parenting. Thanks everyone. Thank you. Thank you so much for sticking around to the end of today's episode of imperfect heroes. Parenting is truly one of the most rewarding journeys we can take. But let's face it, it can be incredibly challenging, and sometimes we make it harder on ourselves than it needs to be. The good news is that with a little bit of work up front, there are practical steps you can take to bring more peace and joy into your family life. I am passionate to share these strategies and insights with you. If you're ready to step on the path to joyful, effective parenting, I invite you to schedule a family checkup. Just click on the calendar link in the show notes below. Schedule a time that works perfectly for you, and let's work together to create a more harmonious and happy environment. And remember, every small step that you take today makes a big difference. So thank you again for joining us, and until next time, let's find joy in parenting.