Episode 102: From Diapers to Doubts, Tackling Imposter Syndrome with Catherine Lamb

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that imperfect heroes Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA.

DJ Stutz  0:10  
You're listening to Episode 102 of Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy and their experience of raising children in an imperfect world, and I'm your host DJ Stutz.

Today, we have a guest all the way from the UK, who is here to help us conquer the dreaded impostor syndrome. So for new parents, imposter syndrome can show up as doubts about your abilities to care for your child feelings of inadequacy when you're comparing yourself to other parents and the constant fear of making mistakes when parents re enter the workforce after a break from having a baby. impostor syndrome can emerge there as well as you question your skills, your knowledge and your worth in the professional realm. And you might worry that your parenting responsibilities will get in the way of your professional performance. And then there is the fear of not being able to meet expectations or fit into the work environment again, which can be overwhelming. Imposter syndrome can have some really bad adverse effects such as decreased self confidence, increased stress and anxiety, and then miss opportunities for personal and professional growth. Catherine Lamb is an expert on combating impostor syndrome, and preventing it from wreaking havoc on parents careers when they returned to work, or they take on a new role as a parent, she's like a superhero. But instead of a cape, she wears her specialist knowledge. And her expertise is her armor. And with a lovely sense of humor and a knack for turning stressful situations into positive growth. Catherine draws from her experience of setting up businesses all over Central and Eastern Europe. But wait, there's more. Catherine superpowers don't just stop there. She also ran a successful recruitment business for over a decade. And she worked closely with new parents who just desperately needed guidance on balancing their career with the joys of parenthood. And she's basically the parenting career coach, we all wish we had. And now Catherine is on a mission to help us overcome impostor syndrome, and manage major life challenges. So get ready to smile, learn and banish that pesky impostor syndrome from your life. As we dive into this fascinating topic, with our extraordinary guest, Katherine lamb. There's so much to learn. So let's get started. 

Welcome, everyone, and thank you for choosing to spend the next little bit of time with Imperfect Heroes podcast. And today we are talking about a new subject. I haven't talked on this subject before. But I think it's an important one, and an interesting one. And it's something that happens very often to new parents as they go back to work. But I think it'll even happen with parents who are staying home with their kiddos as they redefine themselves. And that is called impostor syndrome. And I have this amazing guest, Catherine Lamb, and she comes to us from the UK. And Catherine, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you've got going on. Hi, there, DJ, really

Catherine Lamb  3:43  
nice to meet you and to be speaking to your listeners. So thanks for having me as your guest today. So yes, as you say, I'm from the UK. And my background is in recruitment. And I had impostor syndrome, and I decided to change careers and leave recruitment and go into the world of coaching. And so now I work with a lot of clients who experience impostor syndrome. And that is really a question mark around our identity, we all understand is that fear of feeling like a fraud or that fear of being found out. But really, it's uncertainty around identity, particularly when there's a change. So if we're a new parent, or returning to work, we're not sure what kind of parent we want to be how we're going to be in the workplace as a conflict there. And the conflict if you like, is around who I am, and who I think I need to be in order to be a good parent or who I need to be in order to be successful in the workplace. And so we change our behaviors because of that conflict, we feel I need to behave in a certain way as the ideal parent, I need to make all the food from scratch. As a good worker, I need to be working extra hours. And it can also make us feel like a fraud as well because we're taking on behaviors that aren't genuine to us. And also we're holding the bar so so high, we can't pull Somebody's achieved this really high standard we've set ourselves. So that is, if you like, those are feelings that we associate with imposter syndrome,

DJ Stutz  5:07  
you explain it so well, I remember when I was pregnant with my first and it was actually while I was pregnant that I would have the only time in my life I've had them but actual panic attacks. And we wanted this baby so badly, I'd had two miscarriages and the fact that she was sticking around was so big and huge. But I started having these panic attacks on am I ready to be a mom? And am I going to be a good mom? Am I going to screw everything up? Yeah. And then I was able to stay home. Most of the time when she was about four months old. I went to work part time in sales. And then you worry about, am I giving her the attention she needs? And is she getting everything that she needs physically and emotionally? And why am I working? You know, I mean, just all those different feelings. And then you go to work and you're worried about your new baby. And so you're like, I mess this up and you beat yourself up? I think when you're going through impostor syndrome, one of the symptoms is you just beat yourself up. So much. Am I right on that?

Catherine Lamb  6:13  
Yes, I think you've beat yourself up all the time. And part of it is because we have that really high standard, the standard we have for ourselves is far higher than the standard we had for other people. And the irony, if you like around it is that imposter syndrome only affects high achievers, because that bar is so impossibly high for them. So I think that is something too, you can reassure yourself with it. And there are some interesting behaviors if you like around it, how to have to spot it because you've got in the workplace, you've got a sense of perfectionism, or I need to be supermom, or superdad, you know I need to do the food from scratch, I need to cook, I need to be doing my job really well. I need to make sure for the you know is there's a school baby, it's all homemade. That goes in, I don't buy anything from the store, and everything you really need to do to a high standard. And then also the theming of you need to be an expert. So there's a lot of that around it. So it's picking apart these different behaviors that we have. And then seeing how we're going to handle them instead of doing them in a different way. I think there is a whole fear of failure, because we want to be so good. And we know that the opposite of success is failure. And that's a bit therefore that we really fit that we really fear is the fact it's going to go wrong. And we're going to do it badly.

DJ Stutz  7:26  
Yeah, well, and I think though, that we kind of tend to push things in this pendulum swing, where if we're not over here on the excellent perfection, then we must be on the other side where we're total failure. And we forget all the in between that takes place, and we don't sit down. And at least this is what I've done. And sometimes I still do it quite honestly, but is something will go wrong. And I'll think, oh, I should have done this better. And I didn't do this right or that writer, I let someone down or I let my kiddo down or whatever. And you start beating yourself up, instead of saying, Wow, that didn't go quite like I had planned. So let's stop, take a look. And not with judgmental but with curiosity, and learning. And I feel like that's how I get myself out of that when I find myself fighting that. That's one of the ways is to take maybe the same question, but with a different tone of voice and saying, Wow, that really didn't go like I planned. What can I do? What can I learn? How do I move forward? What's my next step from here? How does that sound?

Catherine Lamb  8:39  
I think that's actually right. And I think actually that the word you've settled on there used a couple of times as learning and that is how it is much more helpful for us to see it. Because as you said, we do seem to be either I'm doing this incredibly well. Or I'm just a disaster, but we don't see it as actually there's a big bit in the middle whereby we are learners. So nobody's taught us how to be a parent, we don't know there's no manual telling you how to do it. We're all freely our way. And also, as well as that we've all got children that are quite individual their needs as well. So we are learning. And it is what makes the question we need to answer as parents is what makes me a good learner, and what is going to help me move forward. And it is by being reflective, and thinking about what we could do differently next time. Rather than just I shouldn't have got it wrong first time around because we will make mistakes. And it's a bit like when we return to the workplace as well. We've got that conflict. So we've got all these conflicts around our identities going on there. And the question around that is, well, what kind of worker do I want to be when I go back to the workplace? What kind of parent do I want to be when I'm at home? And the other question is, when I'm at work, am I still a parent? When I'm at home, am I still working? And do I still want to so what are the boundaries that we can set around that for ourselves to make it easier for us?

DJ Stutz  9:57  
I think you bring up such an important point. And I'm so glad you did is that point of boundaries. And it's funny how when you are at work, and you can be awesome at what you do, and you're right on top of things, and you are a key worker, until you get the phone call that says Joey has a fever, or Susie just bit somebody and they're bleeding, we need you to come down, all of a sudden, that role changes in a heartbeat. And I think that's the thing that, it seems it might be getting a little better. But I think it seems like that role tends to fall on women more than men. And so how do you manage to schedule that the other thing that I really thought was important that you brought up was having a plan. And so it's a plan for being maybe an employee when you're there and parent when you're there. But also having that plan for when things go awry. And sharing that plan, I guess would be important, you can tell me with your employer, I think would be important as well,

Catherine Lamb  10:58  
I think that's a good point. I think it's also it's educating the people around you, as to this is the kind of parent that I'm going to be, this is the kind of employee that I'm going to be whereas often we we don't have it clear in our own minds. And then we don't share that plan with other people. So it needs to be when you're returning to work and working these four days. However, if the phone rings, and my child said, I will be going home because I am the chief carer for the child, you know that my husband or my wife, you know, however you're doing it between you. So I think that is part of it and making sure that other people are getting it all it is. And I think that we see it sometimes as we're juggling roles, but also it's more than that we're juggling identities, we are slipping into the work identity or slipping into the parent identity at different times. And it can also be there's a crossover there, which is where the conflict happens. I think something that's useful for us to bear in mind is when it feels too much, and we're trying to work out well. Is it the important meeting? Or is it the school play? It is what does my future self need me to do right now, and just helps you work out. So this is what is important to me right now and to be honest with yourself around it. Because a lot of my clients when they're returning to the workplace after having children, they are still on their career trajectory, it's still an important time in their career, they're still young enough, they still want to be able to move forward to that career, they don't want it to be the case that they're just treading water. So it's moving forward with that. And also you've got these small people who are dependent on you as well. So it's looking out those issues as well. I think that this feeling of overwhelm and stress when you go back to work, and also be that you start to put rules in place for yourself. This is what makes a good parent, this is what makes a good worker. And particularly around you then have things like perfectionism, which Brene Brown gave a great definition. It's an addiction to process. And I think that's very true. And I think that when we get back to work, we can see as the process will save me from making mistakes, if I'm a rule follower now, that will help me get through the day, I'll be doing my job quite well. Whereas actually what we're there for is not just to be avoid making mistakes, we're there to have creative insights, we're there to be to give a bit more to it than that. So it is thinking about how you're going to be around that. And then also the expert, you're not going to be an expert parents born knowing that. So how kind you're going to be around yourself as being a learner. You know, there's maybe like things like keeping a journal about what you did well, what you do differently next time. And thinking as well as something else around impostor syndrome. Is this need to go solo? I don't need help. I won't ask for it. Well, ask for it. Ask for help when you need it as well. Yeah. So that you're not holding up this unforgiving standard for yourself?

DJ Stutz  13:51  
Yeah. Well, and that's why we call the podcast, imperfect heroes, right is, is we all there's no perfection, it doesn't exist. But that doesn't mean that you're give up and don't try. It means that we're constantly working to just move forward and looking at what is honestly not inflated or deflated. Where am I honestly in the important roles in my life wife or husband, mother, father, employee employer, and asking yourself, so here's where I am. You can look at what should be or what's the perfect thing. But really, I think the most productive question is what's the next step for me to move forward? Yes, yeah. I don't care how old your kids are right? When they're brand new babies. There are a lot of needs. And am I meeting those needs? Am I holding them enough? Am I working out their schedule, so they're sleeping well? And sleep is so important for you, too? How am I working? It's so that I'm getting the sleep that I need to function well, and I think a lot of times new parents when they go back to work, their babies aren't sleeping through the night as well. And And so they come to work and they're depleted. And so they're not going to be their best selves. And so what are some systems then I'm big on systems to put into place with you and your spouse or you and sister or friend or whatever. Or if you've making enough money, and you have time to have a night nanny once or twice a week, even, that's very helpful, so that you can try and get that six hours of sleep, trading off one night daddy takes and one night mommy takes and but finding a system that works for you, and then planning for what could go wrong, and then move forward with it. And again, I think you were mentioned that sharing it sharing your plan, sharing what you're going to do with the key people and who the key people are, I think may vary depending on your life, who you have around you who your employer is all of those things until you it's really an individual thing. I even had someone asked me a question. So is there a set rule for parenting isn't like this is the way to parent. And my thing is, you've heard of one size fits all? Well, with parenting, it's one size fits one. It's very individual. And so you can have hits and misses. And you shouldn't beat yourself up over the misses. It's just like, oh, well, that's a learning experience. What's the next step?

Catherine Lamb  16:20  
Yeah, I agree. I think that's a good point. What is the next step. And I think also this thing around having a plan, the interesting thing we haven't really spoken about is we spoken about the identity of you returning to the workplace, and how that's going to be different to when you left it and the identity of you as a new parent. But the one thing we haven't talked about is you as you and just having some time for yourself. And I think that is very easy for it to fly out the window. And I think that is important as well, you might have a smaller boundary around that. But I think it's important that you've still got that. So you've got the identity of set. Otherwise, you've got almost like that loss of identity. Who am I at the moment, I'm trying to work out what I am what I want to be as a parent, I'm trying to work out who I want to be when I turn to work. But what about the other part of me, that's always been me, that's a very easy part to forget. And I think that can be part of it as well.

DJ Stutz  17:06  
Yeah. And again, having a system of planning be really firm about I need a lunch break to just go and maybe take a walk or chat with a friend at work or whatever that's gonna fill your boat for the afternoon. And then what are the little things that you can sprinkle throughout the day, having a sense available that is maybe homing and soothing, that you can just take a sniff that, you know, sometimes just something like that, it takes 1015 seconds, but it's very rejuvenating. And so finding those little things that you can sprinkle throughout the day. I know my kids were all athletic gymnastics, dance, football, soccer, baseball, hockey. And I know that when my boys were playing soccer, it was very easy for me to just walk around the field while they were practicing so that I was getting some physical movement in that I needed that I wasn't getting at work. And then I could still see what was going on. So maybe there's a two for one opportunity. Are you at work or to double up with things you're doing with your kids to make sure that you are taking care of that me that has who am I?

Catherine Lamb  18:15  
Yeah, who am I? What do I need? And that's a question. We feel selfish as we asked that. And I think there's something around the fact that we, I think it's more women and societal expectation around women is the fact that we are nurturing and giving. And it's selfish of us to think about our needs. And I think sometimes we don't think about our needs, but we hope other people will. But we've got no control over whether other people do or not. So I think it is quite important to take ownership of what do I need? And how am I going to manage it, rather than either look after somebody else and hope that they'll support and look after me as well. I think that's I think it's quite important to think about how you're going to manage that as well about what it recognizing what you need a way you're going to go and ask for support.

DJ Stutz  18:57  
Yeah. And I wondered, maybe you can tell me and you having a background in recruitment might help with some of this. But I think when you're at work and things are getting, it may not have anything to do with your kids, or your home life, it may be that there's a bunch of deadlines that are coming. And it's just a really stressful time at work that happens as well. And you're feeling quite overloaded is maybe setting things up or setting up some expectations that if I need to walk away for 10 minutes and take a breath, go smell my good smells. But have a system there too, that I know we have this deadline, but I will be more productive if I can walk away for 10 minutes and come back refreshed and feeling a little better. Taking those deep breaths, maybe walking around the building or whatever it is that's going on that you have available to you. And then how would you make those needs manifest to your employer or your supervisor, your manager What do you suggest there?

Catherine Lamb  20:01  
So as I think it is, when you're coming back, it is so around this thing, which we're always like talking about feeling overwhelmed, really, aren't we? So it is around. It's flagging the fact that you actually need some support and help because it's just too much for one person you've got going on at the moment. So I think that's the first thing. And I think also around that it is working through what is important versus what is urgent. And for you, when you're looking at what needs to be done with your to do list, is this your urgent? Or is it somebody else's urgent? And if it's somebody else's urgent, can you push it back to them? Is it you're important? Because I think a lot of workplaces can be wrong, the fact that we're doing a lot of other people's urgent, and we don't have enough time to think about what is actually important to us in our jobs, I think it is where you can delegating and where you can pushing back. And also then ask around, I've got all of this to do, what can wait, or what do you need? What do you want me to do? Instead of this, what can I let go in order to get this done? I think that is part of it as well. But I think in the workplace, we're going back to work. And it's feeling very different. It's also having unofficial mentors. And I'm saying unofficial, because it's very easy for us right now by bosses or a mentor this person. But actually, if you've got people who you might be some of the company who's very good at knowing how you get things done, you don't have to say to them, I'm making you my mentor, because it's giving them a job to do Nobody wants a job to do. But you can think about there are certain people are going to use as a go to for different things that you need to get done. So you might have an unofficial career mentor, this is a person I go to, to think about how I'm going to develop my career. This is somebody I go to when they know how to get things done. So it can be done more quickly. Or it's not all piling up on my desk. That's quite a good way of doing it. And I think also as well is I work with my clients, particularly because some of them are coming of maternity, and they're going into a new job, but a new company. So again, it is things like and that there is again, that fear of I don't want to go back to being a learner, again, I'm used to being an expert, I want to stay in my comfort zone, I've got enough changes going on without that as well. And so it is what accelerated questions can you ask to really speed up your learning in the workplace, when you start this new job? What do you need to do? And I get them to write them down? Because some of the questions everybody has about five questions that they think are really foolish questions to ask, I should have asked this years ago, for it's something I should know. And then mapping out who you're going to speak to about that, who is going to be the go to person or company who would be useful to find out things and usually find once you start to ask one question that you feel a bit foolish, you get so much more bad in a response that you then it then answers loads of other questions you've had as well, he can really start to move forward with that. So I think that's something that's worth bearing in mind as well. And then it is getting advice in so and this can be as a new parent and also in the workplace as well. So rather than asking for feedback at work, because everybody hates giving feedback, though, since that negative it is can I get your perspective on something? Or if it's a friend, can I get your advice on this? So it is you drawing in other people's knowledge and information as well and pulling that in that you can use rather than feeling that you should be the expert and you need to know all and you're going to do on your own? It's too much to ask yourself for that, I think.

DJ Stutz  23:22  
Yeah. And I think there's a couple of things that came to mind with talking about mentors, is that sometimes at work, having someone like you, you mentor people as they're going into changes in their workplace and feeling that imposter syndrome or whatever, and helping them find the right questions to ask and who to go to. And so there are coaching opportunities that are out there where you can go to someone and that's what they do for parenting, it would be me. And I love coaching parents, I love just as you love helping people through their careers, and finding the right spot for themselves and how they're thinking and how they fit in and all of that. And so that's another opportunity. If you can't find someone like maybe within your company, that is a really good mentor. It's okay to go outside of the company and find someone like you or with parenting someone like me, to help you and be a mentor to you in that way. is called a mentee. I think it is. Yes. Yes. So when the mentee is truly interested. So what kind of mentee am I? When you're going into that? I think you need to define that kind of as well for yourself going in and setting your own parameters, right? Yes,

Catherine Lamb  24:38  
I think so. I think it is I mean, yes, it comes back to what kind of learner Am I how do I do my learning? And also by clarifying that, the other question to ask is, what do I need from the mentor? And how would I know I'm getting it? Because that way, then you're using them as a proper resource.

DJ Stutz  24:54  
Right, right. And sometimes you have to ask, is this the right mentor for me? Yeah. So I know at what point are what are some great ways to kind of go about that, when you're at work without ruffling too many feathers, but finding the help that you honestly need,

Catherine Lamb  25:10  
you can always find support. If you go through unofficial channels, you don't have to be official about it, right. And therefore it is just going it is being very clear about what you need a way of help and support, who you think would be a good person to provide that, and then approaching them direct, and just ask them being very clear about what it is you need from them. But you don't need to publicize it really, I think that going back as well to if we're looking around at managing imposter syndrome, you go back to the workplace, a useful thing to do as well, is to keep a tally of what you do, you're very pleased with Mrs. If you're a new parent, or if you're back in the workplace, you know, just as you think back to your day, what have you done well, and you don't even need to write it down, you could just put down just a one on a piece of paper, just every time you did something well, and just keep piece of paper in your pocket, or put it on the notes on your phone and just count up how many times how many things you did this day that you feel that went well you feel proud of, and it starts to build your confidence because you then look to increase that number, and you'll find you'll get more and more of them. And if after a two week period, you then start to notice this is what I'm doing well, I'm sort of doing well as a parent, this is now where I'm starting to feel a bit more confident, I'm feeling more competent around the sleep pattern that my child has the pattern that my child has, you know, I don't feel quite so new anymore and inexperienced over it. So you start to build up your confidence in that way. And I think that's a nice task to do to really reflect on it. And I think another one is to do journaling, as well. And in fact, what I do with my clients, because a lot of my clients, you can feel almost overwhelmed with a sense of anxiety. And I think it's easy to talk about a boundary, you know, you need the boundary between work and home. But in real life, there's always a crossover, if you're, if you're a teacher, you're home with the children or Sunday afternoon, you're still thinking about the amount of marking that you still need to be doing for Monday or Tuesday. And I think that what you can do is have a worry jar. So with my clients I talk about we have certain times a day whereby they are allowed to worry. And as a way of managing that almost like make it a discipline is if the worry comes into your head outside that time. That's not a problem, don't push away, just write it down your bit of paper and pop it into your worry jar. And then whatever time is the time you've set aside, it might be first in the morning, it might be late at night. That's when you then open up and tip out all your worries. And then you just score them one to 10 for how much you worried about them. And also what's your plan for dealing with it. And it just makes you feel a bit more in control. But it also means that when you're worried outside of those times, you're acknowledging it, but you're not living in it. And I think that's the key thing. So we all experience impostor syndrome from time to time, but we can try and make it so it's an imposter moment, rather than we're living in impostor life.

DJ Stutz  28:00  
I love that an imposter moment, rather than an imposter. Like, I think too, I love that worry jar. And I think when you dump them all out and you go through them, you're also going to find some that have resolved themselves, aren't you?

Catherine Lamb  28:14  
Yes, you find some results themselves. And also some of them are not such high scores. So when I say scoring for number one to 10, for how serious they are, you know, if the kitchen boilers broken, that might well be at number nine, but lots of them are, because time has passed. So Morrison first came into your head, you know, at the time, it felt really critical and very, very severe. But over time, as you say it's part resolved it or just distance helps. And also so does acknowledgement, the thing about impostor syndrome is very young wrote a very good book called The Secret thoughts of successful women. And she spoke about the fact that impostor syndrome deep deep down, it's that feeling of there's a shame there. There's a feeling of am I good enough, Am I worthy. And so impostor syndrome, all of those behaviors around the perfectionism, that trying to be an expert, that trying to be superwoman, or Superman, it's all there to stop us from that feeling of shame. So these we have all these elaborate behaviors around it to stop that happening. And so therefore, we spend a lot of time trying to hide away from it. We don't like the feeling, but actually, in some ways, it's there to almost like, send up a flag, which is this is how you're feeling. So once you sit there and think about what do I really feel about this? Why do I feel like that, and then you've got your worry jar, the word jar, it's a container. So therefore, you're putting it in there. You're not trying to push it away or hide it away. You've got in there, but equally, there's a protection around it because it's inside that jar until you tip it all out again, during whatever time you've decided, that's the time you're going to do that.

DJ Stutz  29:50  
That is such great advice. I love that. And I really love the journaling part of it too.

Catherine Lamb  29:56  
I think that I think also, it's interesting with saying About rereading the journal, because I think it's useful to reread your journal at the end of the month, because when you're first starting out, you can then see quite quickly Well, you know, a month ago, I felt like this, I felt very unsure about, you know, how it's gonna manage feeds, who's gonna manage, get up in the night, and so on. And then you can see in that short space of time, I've already moved forward. So it's very reassuring for you to see already you're starting to move forward, or you're starting to move out of that, what I call that learner mode, whereby we just think, Oh, I'm a bit incompetent, and so on, you can then feel, Oh, I'm getting a bit more into a comfort zone in the certain areas now and feel a bit more confident about it. And I think that's quite nice for you to actually see that and see that in yourself. And I think that, for the workplace, certainly journaling is a very good thing to do, I get my clients to do it around. Who are the people that you're meeting even so that way, you've almost like got a work tree going around the different characters, the different jobs that they have and who they're related to. So again, you can quickly you've got all this information there. And you can quickly start to familiarize yourself with it, as well as having the work journal around what you're doing well, and what you're going to build on.

DJ Stutz  31:12  
Yeah. Because sometimes we forget who has what knowledge, who's an expert in this area, or in that area. And so by having that in a journal, you can go back and look and say, oh, yeah, that person. And that can help.

Catherine Lamb  31:27  
I'll say we can feel very isolated. Because it's such a deep feeling, we feel as if I'm the only one who feels like this. But actually, statistics are shown about 70% of people will experience impostor syndrome at any time in their career. And I think that as a returning parent, you've got it severely on all fronts, you've got it because you're the new parent to go that uncertainty around your new identity. And then you've got it, as well as that you're returning to work as well. And you're not sure what that means, or you want to be in the workplace. It's a really tough time, I think. I think also, we can feel as if we're almost acting on a world stage where other people are sitting in judgment of us as a parent. And I think that's why it's very important to clarify what kind of parent you want to be. And interestingly, I think it's very important to clarify what kind of how do I want other parents to see me? Because I think that's a question. I think we behave as if we have that question in our heads. But we don't like to answer it. Because sometimes I think the opinion of other parents is it's always has too much importance for it. So why and why is that so important that other parents judgment certain ways? I think there is that unstated criticism that goes on in our own minds, which is well, what will the other parents think of us? Particularly if you have? Well, I know that they're a stay at home mom, but actually, I'm a working mom. So it so that's why it's so important for you to answer in your own head? What kind of parent do I want to be? And what do I want other parents to say about me when I'm not in the room? What do I want my family to say about me when I'm in the room? But most importantly, what do I want my child to say about me when they talk to their school friends about me is the question that is, in some ways are the most important. And I think those are things it's worth sitting and thinking that through. And they can be uncomfortable questions for us to answer. We don't have a ready answer. But I think that if we start to ask those questions ourselves, the answer starts to come. And that then gets rid of this feeling of like a fraud, because it goes back to us at the beginning. You've got this is the kind of parents I am. But I feel I should be like these other parents. Well, that's where the feeling of conflict and feel like an impostor comes from, because you're not being true to you,

DJ Stutz  33:49  
oh, man, you've just hit the soul of my heart with that very often, because we're worried about what other people think you're at the park, and your child has just broken the last straw, and you've had a day. And so maybe you get after them a little more actively than you normally would. But then what's your first thought is what are these other parents going to think instead of I need to concentrate on what my child thought of what I just said? Yeah, that's a big part of my coaching is helping parents through those things. I know, wow, we waste so much time, so much time worrying about what other people think one of my brothers is a therapist, and I was talking to him was about a year, year or so ago. And he said that when we think we know what someone else is thinking, we are wrong, like 98% of the time. And so and I think most the time, we're not even close. So why put that on you. You think someone's thinking that and 98% of the time you're wrong, so why are you giving value to them? That

Catherine Lamb  35:00  
that is so true, our inner critic is far more critical than any external. So it is how we're going to deal with the inner critic. So yes, so I use the ABC technique with my clients. And that is around a is it acknowledging the thought that comes in either the inner critic that's come into your head, and then take a moment to just breathe? And just pause. And then the C is just choose a more helpful thought, What do you want instead? And sometimes it can be just reassuring the voice in your head because as we said, impostor syndrome, part of that is protecting us from that feeling of failure. So it could just be, I sometimes see the imposter syndrome as almost like a naughty child that's inside you, whereby it needs a bit of reassurance rather than hiding away from it, or just criticizing it or pushing it away. It's just, you know, well, actually, you know, if it was a naughty child, you might think about, well, let's look at another way around this, I need to give it some reassurance. Because clearly, the the behavior and the worry is here for reasons. So what is that reason? And I just think that's quite a nice way of looking at it, rather than something that is just out to get you and your flying dog and you're in hiding from it.

DJ Stutz  36:15  
Yeah, that inner child within us that is responding to things that may have happened to us in our childhood happened around us in our childhood, and just acknowledge it and saying, It's okay, sweetie, we've got this, you can go back to sleep. And I'll take care of things. I'm in charge now. Allowing yourself that moment.

Catherine Lamb  36:34  
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  36:37  
So you have so many great things to offer. If any of our listeners want to get a hold of you and learn more about impostor syndrome. Where do they need to go? Okay, so

Catherine Lamb  36:47  
they can find me on LinkedIn. And they can find me on Facebook under Katherine lamb. And I also have a website, which is spectrum 360 dot co.uk. And they can find me on there and website has my contact details on there. Anybody who reaches out to me, of course, I'll respond. So I'd love to hear from your listeners,

DJ Stutz  37:06  
oh, that would be fantastic. We're gonna have all of that information in the show notes. And so our listeners didn't can just scroll down there and get all of that information. And then as soon as they have that, they can just click follow and rate the program and let us know what they thought about what we were saying today. That would be great, too. So before we go, I always ask my guests the same question at the end. How would you describe a successful parent?

Catherine Lamb  37:33  
It's a really good question. And you probably won't be surprised for me to think all the words successful, which always the opposite is failure. So I think that if you're aiming to be a successful parent, you're probably going to head for a bit of a fall. So I think that probably more helpful is to think about what makes me a good learner as a parent. And I think if you see it as a learning journey, rather than as an expert, it will be a far easier ride for you. And it gives you permission to make mistakes, but it also raises your awareness so that you learn from them, rather than this high bar of success versus failure. So I think that by seeing yourself as a learner parent, it's much kinder, and it just stops you from judging yourself too harshly.

DJ Stutz  38:21  
Well, it's also more realistic to is yes, yeah, yeah. And like all that perfection.

Catherine Lamb  38:28  
We're all nuns,

DJ Stutz  38:29  
we're all learners. Just learn. Give yourself some grace. Give your kids grace. Give your spouse, Grace, fellow employees, employers, all of those things, grace to everyone. Like Like, Oprah, you get a car, you get a car, you get grace, you get grace, you get grace. And there we are. Well, Katherine, thank you so much for spending this time with us. It's been very enlightening and formative and I really, really appreciate what you do for people. Thank you. I

Catherine Lamb  38:56  
was really enjoyed being a guest. Thank you very much for having me on the show. Oh, you're

DJ Stutz  38:59  
welcome. Be sure to check the show notes to get all the information on how to connect with Catherine and her website and all the other stuff that she has to offer. While you're down there, hit the Follow button to make sure you are getting in on all the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you like what you heard in today's podcast, be sure to rate review and tell a friend. And if you do this, I have a special gift for you. And I'm going to send you a digital copy of my book living in kindness, a journey, a journal, and a workbook. And in this book, we go through five areas of kindness and how to make them a part of your everyday life and your family traditions. So on the website of the podcast, imperfectheroespodcast.com You might be there as we speak, just click on the Reviews tab at the very top and then you'll see leave a review click there and it's that easy. Are you making plans for the summer? Well, I'm here to help. So I am making my guide to a strategic summer available for free, so much free stuff. And here, I help you think about and create goals for yourself and your kids, along with the mileposts along the way to check yourself and see how you are making progress. I also have a calendar for June, July and August with a theme for every day to help you out just in case you're struggling to come up with some ideas. It can be daunting to have a theme or something to do every day. And I know you're just jumping up and down excited to find out about how do I get this resource in my life? Well, here's what you do. You're going to go to the website, www.littleheartsacademyusa.com. And if you look under Resources, click there and you're going to find it there. Or you could just click on the link in the show notes. So get going. And next week my guest will be Leslie Paul Hutton off who coaches parents on co parenting after a divorce. And we also spend some time on strategies on how to co parent when the couple's still together. So check it out and see and until next time, let's find joy in parenting!

Transcribed by https://otter.ai