Episode 105: Navigating the Beautiful Chaos: Fiona Valentine's Story of Love, Growth, and Special Needs Parenting

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA.

DJ Stutz  0:09  
Welcome heroes and heroines to Episode 105 of imperfect heroes insights into parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world and I'm your host DJ Stutz.

In today's episode, I have a delightful conversation with Fiona Valentine. She's an extraordinary Australian artist and she's the author of the heartwarming book Tiny Wings. Fiona's journey revolves around being a parent to a neurodiverse child, specifically, her daughter who has autism. She shares her invaluable insights on how to provide support, not only for yourself, but also for your child, your spouse and the other children in your family. It's so important to include the whole family. And during those early years, Fiona found herself just immersed in what seemed to be a labyrinth of advocating and searching for a diagnosis, which sometimes overshadowed her own hopes for the future. However, during this podcast, she is so inspiring. And she lists up families who are currently navigating those challenges of parenting, especially when special needs are part of their lives. And one of the things I love about her story is how her extended family became such an integral part of managing life in those early years. So Fiona's book, Tiny Wings is this beautiful tribute to girls with autism, and to those who just adore them. And it's filled with compassion, understanding, a sprinkle of humor, and these are all things that are going to resonate with anyone who reads it. In this episode, we're going to talk about a variety of topics, all with Fiona's signature sense of humor, and we discussed the importance of establishing connections with the school's embracing unconventional solutions. And Fiona reminds us to be patient during those moments of relapse, and to celebrate the significance of baby steps. She shares her perspective on the ever changing nature of autism, and encourages us to remember that our children are going to grow up. And all of this brings new possibilities and new transformations. And one of the crucial aspects that we explored during this conversation is ensuring the needs of all the children are met, including those without autism. Fiona's refreshing perspective sheds light on The Balancing Act required to create a harmonious and joyful family life. So let's get ready for an engaging and hope filled conversation as we dive into the world of Fiona Valentine, and her remarkable insights, there's so much to learn. So let's get started. 

Hey, everybody, I am so excited to have you here as part of our imperfect heroes podcast. And you might be listening to us as well on YouTube or on Rumble. And so I'm just very excited for this new phase of our system growing and becoming more. Today I have such an amazing guest. And if you love what you're hearing, I hope that you'll hit follow and like leave a comment if you hear something that you think is interesting, or you have a further question or you want to share your point of view. I would love to hear from you in the comments. My guest today comes to us from down under. She's from Australia. And she has an amazing book out and her name is Fiona Valentine, what a fun name to have. Yes, you're a holiday we just had a little bit ago. We're talking about autism. And you've written a lovely book on this subject. And so let's talk a little bit Fiona, why don't you let us know what you've got going on and how your book fits in and why you wrote this.

Fiona Valentine  4:22  
So I'm an artist and a business coach focusing on creativity. I help entrepreneurs and businesses to unlock their creativity, whether that's really content creation, or whether that's with continuous improvement. On along the way. I've been raising two daughters and my younger daughter is on the autism spectrum. Yeah, it's been a long journey of figuring that out. So now she's just been five. And so when I'm looking back on those 25 years and just sharing that story, because for us stories were so important as we were coming to terms with what this meant to be walking the journey with autism. So our book tiny Wings is really just sharing. Look, this is what it was like for us. Perhaps this story is helpful for you and your journey, just as other stories were really, really helpful for us.

DJ Stutz  5:10  
I so appreciate that you were willing to share your story. You know, we've talked a few days ago, we've talked just before we started this, and I shared with you that in teaching, I've had several students that were on the spectrum, some fairly significantly, and others very high functioning. It's interesting how in autism, you hear autism. And I think people tend to think of the worst of it, you know, the deeply involved students who really have a lot of big struggles. But the truth is, the majority of people who have autism are somewhere in that mid range, or in that high functioning range. And so your child could be anywhere in between there.

Fiona Valentine  5:55  
And you don't get a set of instructions on the front end saying this is exactly where your child's at. It's such a journey of discovery. And as you said, there are so many variations that it can be really challenging to work out, what is the specific set of challenges and abilities that your child has? And how can you develop them?

DJ Stutz  6:16  
Yeah, for sure. And I think, too, in my experience, when at least when they're in the mid range, or in the high functioning range, you get to see a piece of them that they are just a genius at, that they really latch on to and love and do very well at. And in fact, the richest man in the world is on the autism spectrum, right. And so it doesn't mean that they're going to fail or that they're going to be a burden on society or on the family. It just means at least for me, it means, oh, we're taking a different route.

Fiona Valentine  6:53  
Exactly, yeah. And I feel like I was slow to come to that perspective. And I remember a very clear aha moment that we described in the book, hearing a lecture on looking at the potential of your child not forgetting to look at their strengths, interests, go with what comes in easy, and not be afraid to take a different path, to look at those abilities and try to develop them and look at the relationships that you have, who would be open to working with your child, giving them some work experience, so befriending them, or just giving them some opportunities to slowly put into practice those skills. And that pivotal moment for me, made me realize I'd become so focused on advocating all of the problems we were dealing with, I completely forgotten my natural tendency to be future oriented. And to look at possibility. Yeah, it was a real flip for me to go, Okay, what comes easy? What works? Well, what do we love what's easy for her? And for us, it's books, books all the way. And so books just became a huge part of us directing and growing. And, yeah, part of our story,

DJ Stutz  8:04  
what a great thing. And I love that you found it. And it does sometimes take time. And as with typical, I don't know if there's really such a thing as a typical kid fully. But as with all children, those interests may kind of won and change a little bit, but you're going to find that as you follow that path of what they become interested in, there's going to be a common denominator within all of those subjects. And it's just how they're relating what they do well, to whatever that subject is. And so I am excited when we get to see kids that are into space. And then maybe they're into the oceans. I've had students that were on the spectrum that could tell you at age five, every layer of the ocean animals that lived within each zone, they love the Abyss usually most kids do anyway, but they seem to go deeper into that knowledge and that understanding. And so your daughter with books, how did that manifest?

Fiona Valentine  9:10  
First it manifested when she was really little? Because reading books out loud, for me was the easy way to parent. I'd grown up we played games in our family. My dad loved that. My dad was the youngest of seven, by the way. I know you hope

DJ Stutz  9:22  
for seven. Yeah. And my

Fiona Valentine  9:25  
mom and I reading was always our thing. And to dad, my sister Joe was playing games. So with my kids reading out loud was natural. That was what came easy to me and Mikayla, love to sit and listen to its natural close wouldn't really say anything, but she just enjoyed doing that. And it was a low stress way for us to do something again. And then I was worried that she would find it hard to learn to read, but at the time we were homeschooling. So she listened to her older cousins and her sister go through kindergarten phonics and then grade one phonics. And so by the time she'd done it, she'd been through the phonics program. This is the third time, I think that really helped. But she took to reading like a duck a water, I was amazed. And so by the time she was eight or nine, she was reading enormous books in a weekend. And we started to notice that she was remembering random facts she had read, or heard or seen on television, and kind of playing snap with, oh, that's just like this, when we all kind of astonished at this ability to make little connections between amazing things. You know, I saw this actor here, and he was also in this and it was just like this scene in this book. And it's not exactly like you think, oh, okay, well, that'll be a career, but it was there. And then as she's going through school, and we discovered there was cognitive delay, and some other things going on in school was a struggle for her a real struggle, and it was quite scary as a parent going, okay. After some time, we realized further education is not going to be an option for her. Oh, my gosh. So the book Avenue, because she wasn't really coping academically, and sensory wise school sport days were a nightmare. We and the special needs team decided, okay, well, let's try volunteering in the library when that went, right. So in the end, I kind of had this crazy idea that let's just give up on school. Because the makellos case, everyone else is gearing up for those final junior senior year. Yeah, it's called VCE. Here, year 11 and 12. And the pressure, the fall environment shifts, and she was taking this on board, even though she wasn't expected. But for like everyone else, the environment was different. And that was affecting her. So more and more she was finding sanctuary in the library. And finally, I just said, Look, can we just skip the last year of school? It's not working? What if she just volunteers in the library? Well, they came back and said, No, we'd like to employ her in the library. Oh. So she ended up working part time in her school library. So she was still in the community she loved. And it was extraordinary watching her blossom. In that role, it was a real challenge shifting from student to teacher, learning how to be both submissive to oldest staff in kind of the right way that you have to be when you're a learner, you know, and you're able to take telling and correction and all that stuff, that was a challenge, but also have a little bit of an authoritarian stance with the kids, because you're a staff now, you can't just act like a kid, you've got to act like that. How do you do that? When you're the youngest member of the team, there's a huge adjustment. But along the way, we started to see these amazing things happen. One of the main, most beautiful one was, she came up with this whole system called the six chapter challenge, to come up with a series of questions to get to know non readers and what they want it to do. So what do you like? Do you like playing sports? Do you like watching TV? Do you like reading or you could get kids to tell it the kind of sport they liked, or the kind of TV shows they liked a bit more. And then she sort of reflect back to them. So okay, so you like blah, blah, blah? And do you like your books, or long chapter books? This was a really subtle way of saying, can you read? Or do you struggle to read without asking it upfront, because she knows how vulnerable and dumb you can feel if there's any kind of struggle. So she had these very gentle ways of getting through and this whole series of six questions that she would ask kids and then because of her memory, do you just knew section catalog the back of her hand, and she could take kids right to a book that she remembered, she had read, which is a voracious reader. And she said, Okay, try this, you gotta try six chapters. And if you don't like it, bring it back, and I'll find you something else, no sweat. And she knew by the time they got six chapters in, they'd probably be hooked. And she converted so many non readers, that becoming readers. So it was beautiful to watch that blossom.

DJ Stutz  13:53  
What an amazing talent and kudos to you and to the school for catching on to that. And instead of push and force and force and making that a thing that's just going to deplete their own vision of self worth and frustrate them. And when you're doing that kind of stuff, you're increasing the chances of meltdowns of anxiety of panic attacks, all those things that are very typical to kids who are on the spectrum. But you were able to find that and negotiate it and the school was open

Fiona Valentine  14:28  
to what you such a terrific team, even at that school, and the principal was so supportive right from when Mikayla went to that school. She was at the end of her second year of high schools when she transferred there. And the principal just saw that and has come to the library in those later years. And he would bring kids who were struggling who also had an experience of bullying, and he would introduce them to Makayla, just for a chance for her to tell them a little bit of a story and because he knew she would just kind of take him under her wing. He was a lovely thing. They were very supportive.

DJ Stutz  14:59  
Oh how amazing And that just gives me goosebumps to think about that lovely collaboration. You know, you don't always get that when she was younger. I'm wondering, because teachers are human. And teachers have their own touch points and their own triggers. And I think when they're really young, it's kind of harder, because you're still negotiating the whole process, you're dealing with it emotionally, yourself, you're wondering what's going on, you may or may not have a diagnosis yet. And so some teachers are just great with the spectrum, with that spectrum, and kids who might have some other learning disabilities or emotional social challenges. And so were you able to kind of connect with the teachers, and I'm sure she had some great ones and some not so great ones. How did you negotiate all of that?

Fiona Valentine  15:55  
Well, to begin with, I realized there was no way she was going to function in a mainstream school. Unfortunately, we had already decided to homeschool, we were already on that pathway with her older sister, my sister had four kids. And at that same time, our twins when few weeks after I had my firstborn, so we kind of had this little inbuilt package, and she had a baby, really soon after those twins. So we had our own kindergarten, I already made. So it was lovely having that company. And so Mikayla was child, five, I think in that mix. And then Joe had a 6/4 for her, but six for our little, little bunch. So Mikayla didn't go to school until we had, we didn't get a diagnosis. Until she was nine, I finally figured out what was going on when she was eight. And then we got an official diagnosis the following year with the intention of her going to school. So she repeated the fifth grade deliberately so that academically she'd be more than prepared and pick a focus on the social side of grade five. And for her, she, I felt that at that time, she was far more ready, she could manage yourself as a human in ways that she couldn't have beforehand. And just some of the sensory things and her coordination, things had come together a bit. So we didn't start dealing with teachers until I'd had quite a bit of experience under my belt with working with her. And because she learned to read early on, I felt like that was a big piece of the puzzle that often isn't there often reading is an extremely enormous struggle. Thankfully, for her it wasn't. But I did have to do an enormous amount of advocating, communicating, trying to build a relationship with teachers and support workers in Australia, we have quite a lot of support. So in primary school, Mikayla was able to have an aide to help her. That wasn't the case in high school. But that helped. But even there, you've got your wins and your misses. So in general, yeah, we just had the the usual mix of challenging relationships and ones that work better than others. And yeah, it was a huge part of my life for a long time to be dealing with the school, and advocating and learning to not step on people's toes while also their pup and not be afraid to say yes or no, or this is what my daughter needs. And we do this or what about that. And for the most part that was really well received. And it's hard sometimes to know what your child needs, and then have to wait for the teacher to reject your choice. And then months later, come back and go you know what you were right.

DJ Stutz  18:27  
Yeah, and we just wasted four months, but you appreciate them coming around. I know that when I was teaching, and I took on children with behavior issues, social emotional issues, are kind of my cup of tea. I really love them engaged with them. So I know that toward the end of the year, I would go and meet with my principal, and my top, we call them the high fliers, the ones that needed that extra support and stuff. And so I would meet with my principal and talk about each of these kids. And this is what they react to this is what sets them off. This is whatever. And she would listen and write things down. And then she would try to get the kids with the teacher that had the temperament. And so we had a wonderful three first grades. And you know, so three different personalities of teachers, and so she would try to match them with. Now you don't always get that I know in the United States, some schools are just great like that, like the luck that I had, but others are totally not. And so you have to start making some decisions. I know that you took those first few years with doing homeschool. And that is definitely a possibility. It can be difficult if you're working full time. And so how are you going to manage that? But I loved what you talked about having this group that all did school together at some point. How did you make that work?

Fiona Valentine  19:57  
It changed at different times. So, because my sister and I are on the same page, she and her husband and my husband were all women wanting to homeschool their kids, they actually moved into state to be near us. And the home that they moved into was quite large. So the guys built little desks for the kids. And we set up like a little school room in the bottom of her house. And so that first year when they were doing kindergarten, I would drive to her place. And we would spend most of our day together. And she and I both had a teaching background, which helped I realize homeschooling, it's not for everybody, right? Our mom was a teacher, we'd grown up in small, independent school environments. We've been to Africa with our teaching, teaching kids to read. So for us, that was a really natural good fit. And it was wonderful. We really enjoyed it. And then a little bit later, they actually moved next door, we knocked down the back fence. So the kids had one giant backyard for a few years. And it changed as we moved different places. And eventually, when our girls hit year eight and year five, that's when we felt like okay, all are ready for a change. I certainly felt the pressure of homeschooling being occupational therapist, speech therapist, dietician, you know, all the roles, you really do have to learn as a mom of a kid on the spectrum. I was just feeling fried. And I could see that Mikayla was at the point where she could function better than she had. And she really needed the social modeling of more kids around. Instead of just being the next youngest of a group of six, we really needed to be with her peers, just to pick up all of those things that need to be learned by rote, they don't come naturally. And our eldest daughter, she really needed just a wider world at that point. So we put them in local schools, and the elementary school. Here for Mikayla five and six, that worked really well. But when she went to the local public high school, it really was a disaster. Exactly. And fortunately, she had a wonderful teacher who had a son, nonverbal autistic son. Oh, wow. And so he knew what I was dealing with his a lovely man, he and his wife were terrific. And I remember going to a parent teacher interview and sitting down with him and saying, okay, so how's she going? And he just looked at me very kindly. And he said, piano, it's not working. It's not the right school for her, you need to find somewhere else. To watch. I don't either ventilate. But eventually, we did. And he was salutely, right. And I'm so thankful that he had the courage to just tell it to me straight.

DJ Stutz  22:34  
Boy, you really bring up the word courage. And for a teacher, that's a scary place to be, you don't know how the parents are going to react to something like that. But kudos to you for listening, even though it hurt your heart at the moment, right? But listening in and processing it, and then staying Okay, and having a relationship with a teacher that you trust. So it was nice, if it was someone who was always on her case, every day, bah, bah, bah, you wouldn't trust that person so much. But if you had a teacher that's going through very similar situations within their own family, and they get it, you're going to trust that person more. And yeah, whole,

Fiona Valentine  23:17  
we have just been so grateful for the teachers and the aides and the coordinators who have come into our life who have just gone above and beyond, I could not have done those high school years. Without them. We're just so grateful for the above and beyond, here and dedication. And I know how challenging it is, for a teacher with a classroom when you've got multiple special needs kids, as many teachers do, and so few resources at times the drain, and especially if you've also got special needs kids at home, that can be a challenge that some teachers are living with. And yeah, I've just got so much gratitude and respect for the work that teachers do.

DJ Stutz  23:57  
Yeah, I know, in my case, and some of our listeners or watchers now have been listening to me for very long, they know that my youngest son is severely ADHD. And in fact, his pediatric neurologist that was working with them said that he had treated over 3000 kids with ADHD and he said Your son's probably in my top five. He was pretty involved, and trying to find the support and what was available and just hitting a wall was so many of his teachers. And so I totally understand that I understand from the teachers point of view, right. And there were times when I remember one year, I had six kids that were so violent and the quick to be upset, um, for various they weren't all on the spectrum, but they all had different emotional disability. And I had an occupational therapist, she would come in just once a month. That's all I got her. It's For an hour, yeah. And she said, DJ, these six kids, I mean, they would qualify for a one on one fully enclosed, supportive classroom. And there's no room for them. And I said, I know. But they're mine, I got him. So let's do what we've got to do. So I know from that point where teachers really trying the best they can, and they don't have all the resources that they really need. Compare that to the last two years of my teaching, my old school has shut down. So the last two years I was in this other school with that wonderful principal, I was just blown away by the support that I had. And it was all because of the dedication of that school and that principle and those specialists. And if you can find something with that, but there are other options that are available. It's not just homeschool, or a public school, there are lots of other options that are available. Did you look at any of those, or look for some of those? We

Fiona Valentine  26:01  
did. And some of our friends were in that kind of hybrid situation where they were studying at home. And then they had like, a few times a week, there was a school cooperative. I know that's worked really great for some people. In our situation, it was the very structure and the volume of kids in school that we were looking for, because we were looking for Makayla to be with a lot of neurotypical kids, right, because of the modeling of just being around and observing how kids interact. And hopefully, yeah, better interactions, not not the worst ones. And it really did make a big difference for her just to normalize her behavior by being around other kids. And fortunately, she was in a school where most of the kids were great. So we did look at other options. And we wondered if we were going to have to change again. Thankfully, we did eventually find a great school that she was in for 910 11. And then of course, 12, she went into the library as a as a part time employee. Yeah. So she had three really terrific years. But in all of those years, I think for us as a family, we just decided that when we saw an issue, whether it was a coordination issue, a speech issue, a diet issue, we would start by doing some research and see what we could do ourselves. Because we knew in Mikolas case, she would get easily stressed by a lot of scheduling, a lot of changes, a lot of going places. So as much as possible, we tried to keep her routine, simple and do what we could do at home, which was not easy. But the exercises that we did the dietary changes. Eventually, I figured it out. That even just trying with speech stuff, little things that we did at home, they really did make a difference. And over time, the cumulative effect of just those little interventions, like when she was about 14, and we decided, okay, let's learn some kitchen skills. She was literally shaking over, turning the oven on, like a panic attack, just turning the dial. And it's over gas oven. It's an electric oven. I don't know what she thought was gonna happen. But that's where we had to start. And it took multiple came in and have a session. Let's practice turning the oven on without freaking out. But it took multiple efforts, just to learn to turn the oven on without having a meltdown. Now, this kid is a fantastic cook last night, he made us spaghetti, garlic bread salad is the whole thing at the table. She cooks for us two or three nights a week she does the family shopping. I mean, she's in her mid 20s. But she loves to do those things. But it was itty bitty beginnings. Just thinking really? Are we ever gonna get anywhere we can't even turn it on? Yeah, so don't be afraid to start small. Don't be afraid to start at home, it may not seem like much, but it really does make a difference.

DJ Stutz  29:00  
And I love that you were giving her the time the teacher in me is a data collector. And so it may seem like we're not getting anywhere. She's struggling so much with just the simple task, simple task. But if you sat down and maybe, okay, it took her five minutes to get the courage to get this stove on. And then as you're collecting data, you might notice Oh, it was four and a half minutes this time. Now if you weren't paying attention to that, you might not see that small, subtle 30 seconds of improvement and get that's a huge deal for her for Mikayla. And so keeping track I think if you have a child that is freaking out over something, and you're working with them, doesn't matter what it is because they all have their own thing. And you really do start collecting data on that. Just a little note here and there have a thing, but you're going to get to see those small changes and over time they become wonderful cooks or whatever it is. Yeah but it's not gonna happen quickly.

Fiona Valentine  30:02  
It's not. And it's, it can be so frustrating that those little things take so long, like when we remember when we first worked like going to the shopping mall, going to the supermarket. And because of spatial awareness, because bumping into people. So we had to kind of learn even how to walk through the mall, how to walk through the shopping center and stick to the left and how to then when she was pushing my trolley and learning not to run over the back of my heels, which kids have done that it's extremely Yes, it is learning to question to people with the trolley that took a long time and then learn to manage the trolley when you go get one item and put it in the trolley without obstructing everybody else in the supermarket. You know, there was such micro skills, but now you can hop on the bus, go to the grocery store, get no better come home, whatever, you can manage these things. Most of the time, she'll do the shopping, and I'll go text me when she's at the checkout. And I'll go load up the boat and come home. And that independence, that feeling that she's making contribution to the household at this point as an adult, the loves doing it, but it was 1000 steps to get there.

DJ Stutz  31:10  
Yeah, I think probably one of the key words for a parent of an autistic child is patience, hopefully, and then perseverance.

Fiona Valentine  31:19  
And we're human. It's hard not to make space for yourself. It's someone to pour into you. And it's so challenging to do that. For me. Getting a break I was learning paint and making paintings space in my life became a space where I could get into a headspace where I was only thinking about the next taller the next paint stroke that all the issues of painting. And for an hour or so I could forget about parenting, autism and school and all of those challenges. Yeah, and it was a wonderful when she was finally at school. And I was working part time, Mondays when my day. So I made sure that I didn't just fill it with household chores or whatever. I set aside time to paint and I had to set an alarm on my phone or I forget to go to the school bus and pick her up.

DJ Stutz  32:11  
It happens to everybody. Another important thing is like you were kind of talking about is giving yourself a break, right? And just saying, oh gosh, I didn't handle that. Well, or I didn't use this technique that we all agreed that I was going to use or whatever I forgot. Parenting is hard, even under the best of circumstances. But you just really need to offer grace to yourself and say, Okay, well next time. We'll get it next time. I need to make an apology. You can make an apology.

Fiona Valentine  32:44  
Yes, I think that's so important. I really struggled with just being angry and frustrated in those school years when anger is the sign of a blocked goal. We have a lot of luck. Yeah. Yeah. It's a real challenge not to get angry and frustrated. And I hated ever communicating that to her. But I failed in that aisle a lot. And I found myself apologizing to her frequently for being impatient or just short over things. And she was so gracious in such a forgiving soul. I think yeah, just knowing that this is hard. Faith has been a huge part of this whole journey. And I don't know how I would have made it without that trusting God and that confidence that he knows he sees all of it. And he's at work with us in it. Yeah, kids in ourselves and as a believer in Jesus, knowing that his spirit is leaving in me and just being able to trust him through the Spirit, the patience, the kindness, the joy when I do not have it in myself exactly a huge part of our journey.

DJ Stutz  33:46  
Well, and I think to being aware of the Spirit talking to you in certain moments where maybe you would have gone one way but you feel that spirit saying, try this, let's go this way what I was planning on this, nope. And you will find that when you listen to that, it goes better than if you've done your insistent way. So I do believe that in on that's part of our whole thing with imperfect Heroes is that faith is a big part we truly are not alone in if we will allow that to work within us. And allow that grace to be there and those loving arms to come around you there have been times when I physically have felt those arms around me when I desperately needed them. So good for you. I'm so glad that you're in on all of this. So talk to me a little bit more about your

Fiona Valentine  34:35  
book. We've written it kind of memoir style, going back and forth between my voice and makellos voice and just telling the story for us. It was a battle from day one. Pregnancy I nearly died after Mikayla was born. He was tiny. We knew something was wrong, but nationalists couldn't tell us what was going on. So it was a confusing journey and And then there were a lot of other conditions as there are for many people on the spectrum. By the time she was about eight, she started having seizures, which we had never experienced in our lives. So that was completely terrifying and scary. She's still on medication. Now, she did have a break for about nine years, but then they came back. But we had never stumbled across the information that this is a really common condition for people on the spectrum that the percentage of Autistics who also have epilepsy is very high. The same with celiac disease, agonizing stomach pain led to finally going to a doctor and realizing she's celiac as well as eczema, allergies, plasma, eyesight issues, coordination issues, there's a lot and often you've got more than one thing going on. So we tried to tell that story without shying away from the messy agree, Gary, it's not because we will underwrite a sensational, but because we feel like when you know, you're not alone, someone else has lived through this and survived. It can help you help us and women writing about their experience with autism as an adult. And reflecting on their teams, as a parent was really empowering for me raising a girl having some kind of vision of how her challenges might manifest as she got older, really helped me to be a more discerning parents. So we felt like we love stories, they have helped us. So we're going to contribute our story and hope that it's helpful for someone else. Just real moments, like being lately overwhelmed with parenting. Mikayla and getting into bed one night, just looking at my husband, exhausted. And he said, Just remember, one day, she's going to be 16. And I looked at him like he was nuts. Even at that point, yeah, yeah. So far away, but just holding out that hope that he's kind of grow up one way or the other. And it's, I hope that for someone who's deep in the trenches of having littles, on the spectrum, maybe more than one, just to offer some hope and encouragement in someone else having been through the messy miles that you're going through? Yeah. And just say, hey, we see you. Yeah, hang in there.

DJ Stutz  37:16  
For sure. You know, you bring up with it, maybe more than one. And I know you have two kids, right. So they're not both on the spectrum, or are they?

Fiona Valentine  37:25  
Well, that's an interesting question. During the process of writing this book, my other daughter, who's a nurse has discovered that she has ADHD and likely autism. And she summoned us, because I knew what autism look like from Ella. And Maddie, is it completely different? Yeah, well, he was really smart, right from the get go. He's always been my fashion conscious and image conscious, she's gorgeous, is just socially, very extroverted. And yet, there's also been an anxiety. She's smart, but there were times when she just really struggled to perform at school in ways that didn't make sense to me. So as Kate's gone on this journey of self exploration, and gotten some diagnosis and help, and we've been reading and researching together, we're realizing, wow, or the woman with a high IQ. There may be a glamorous, extroverted social presentation, that can be quite different. And experience. Mikayla has had but she doesn't, she'd much rather be comfortable than care about what she looks like, right? And she's quite happy in her introverted, book reading world, she loves people, but take him in moderation. And she's never gonna be, well, there are times when she's the life of the party, but it's not her usual go to way of operating. So just seeing, wow, these are completely different expressions of autism. It's been fascinating. And it's Jennifer Cook's writing has been really helpful for me and understanding this package of the other kind of girl on spectrum or with ADHD. So that's been a big learning curve. So this is a new revelation for us, even as we're writing this book, and we've laughed about the fact that I think we need to write the second book called ruffled feathers on the sibling experience, and what autism ADHD can look like in a different package.

DJ Stutz  39:29  
Yes, absolutely. And so you've got kids who will address autism in very different ways within the same family. You may have kids who within the family that somehow are one or some have autism and the others don't. And so how do you make sure you're meeting the needs of all the kids were making sure that relationship is strong and that they aren't feeling lost in the mix while you're still meeting the needs of your most needy will say, child, and what a challenge that is

Fiona Valentine  40:03  
so, so challenging. And I know for Kate, that was a big thing. It was just a costly thing for the time for managing meltdowns and all of the situation to be able to feel like there was space for her to be her and her to family dinners that are disrupted because of a drama or stress or whatever. And yeah, we, I guess our approach was, there were a couple of things. One, faith was always a big ashore, we tried to be really honest, and to deliberately make time for her. We didn't always get that right. But that was another way that we were somewhat aware of the cost to her. We wouldn't verbalize that we saw it, we saw that this was hard. On the other thing was we tried to keep our life pretty simple. We recognize that we were dealing with a lot. So we tried to manage our home and keep it orderly, and not run around to 1000 extracurricular activities, just keep life simple. And I could see even I didn't know that Kate was dealing with ADHD and probably autism, I had no idea I could sense that school was more than overwhelming for her is that she's smart, capable, popular, it was very stressful. And so my dad is the youngest of seven had a very strong work ethic, and his generation. And you know, all of that. And so we as girls, my sister and I, we would mow the grass. And so we'd help inside the house and outside the house, because there were no sons. So we did quite a lot in addition to school, and music, lessons, and all of that. But I felt like for my girls, they were growing up in a different era with a different set of needs. Life is just different than it was when I was a kid. And so my husband and I decided we deliberately, must very little of them in terms of yard work, or even housework. But they did do some other Well, they both learned to cook and sharp and clean. But we tried to keep the chores almost non existent. So they did help with clean ups and things like that. But we tried to be very careful as they got older in the school burden got heavy, to make sure that we expected them to work. But we explained that we were giving them the night off the cleanup, or not asking them to help with yard work, we would do it because we saw the load that they were carrying in terms of homework and this stage in their life back to where we wanted to send their energy when we're big believers in nuts. For all of us that just taking a nap or taking the afternoon off or chill time. We tried to respect those times and not just remind our kids of whatever they had to do every time we saw them to give them that mental downtime and to as a family try to protect it for each other that they were just some of our survival. Go to Yeah, sneaks as a family. Well, it

DJ Stutz  42:49  
sounds like you've just done a great job and really thought things through, you've come up with some answers that people may have questions too. And so if our listeners want to get a hold of you or find out more about how to get your book, where should they go,

Fiona Valentine  43:05  
you can find me at my website, Fiona valentine.com. And I'll have information there for the book for my art programs and coaching services. It's all there. You can also find me at Fiona Valentine artist on Instagram. If you're or your kids are interested in the creative process, I've got lots of creative resources too, I run a Facebook group called the confident artist. So those who are wanting to develop their creativity around art and painting and business of selling art as well. So those are three places that you can find me

DJ Stutz  43:37  
lovely. And so we're going to make sure that we have all of that information in our show notes. And to we want to hear your stories, listeners, we want to hear maybe something we said today spurred memory or a thought or a question. And we would love to hear from you and to see what's going on in your life and what's going on in your mind. And maybe it's not a child of yours that has autism, but maybe it's a classmate of one of your kids or a friend or a cousin or or something. It seems like autism is so prevalent right now for whatever reason. I'm not sure what it is. But it's definitely becoming more and more common. That knowing how to approach it, whether it's in your nuclear family or whether it's somewhere else out there. Having that understanding and compassion. And giving the parents of these kids some grace and maybe a break sometimes do is something that's really thoughtful to do. So. I always ask my guests the same question as we come to the end of our podcast. And that is Fiona. How would you describe a successful parents?

Fiona Valentine  44:49  
That's such a big question. So many ways we could answer this. For me. I think we already touched on the patient's side of it and I think you're especially if you're dealing with special needs a patient parent is a huge part of success. And for me, it's a faith thing too. I think that we're not just preparing our kids for this life, but we're preparing our kids for the life to come home with you. So for me, being really familiar with the teaching of the Bible, and the exclusive claims of Jesus Christ has been a huge part of my parenting because I feel responsible not just to prepare them for their adult life, but for ever often. Yeah, so for me, success is keeping an eye on each entity as well as their future here. And just being consistent patient with myself when I mess up and just asking God for that grace to be be what they need knowing. Probably never get it, all right. But trying and being honest with them in the process of where I've messed up and reflecting back to them how I see their, their courage in dealing with whatever it is that they're dealing with just being trying to be present, even as they get into their adult years, just be present in a phone call, or just to listen to me hold space for them. I think those are elements of being a successful parent.

DJ Stutz  46:09  
I think you are so right. So right, all of those levels. So thank you so much for spending this time with us and, and giving us your insight. I really appreciate it. And I I love your spirit and your demeanor. You just seem like very calm and patient person naturally. And so I know we all have our bad moments, but I just love what you exude.

Fiona Valentine  46:33  
Oh, thank you, DJ, it's been so fun to talk with you. We have so many commonalities with being tinkerers and just loving her kindergarten experience and just parenting. We're obviously both people, people. We could talk for hours. It's been fun. Thank you.

DJ Stutz  46:48  
We could, we could, and we'd love to maybe look at collaborating on things in the future. But thanks again. And we'll talk to you again at some point. And if you want to learn more about Fiona and her book, and her website, and her art, you can find all that information in the show notes below. And then hit the Follow button to make sure you're getting in on the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you like what you hear in today's podcast, be sure to rate and review and tell a friend. And you can do this whether you listen on Apple, Spotify, or some other platform, or if you just listen from the imperfect heroes podcast website. And so on the website page if that's where you're going to do it, which is imperfectheroespodcast.com. Just click on the review, it's at the top and then you're gonna see leave a review, click there. And it's that easy. 

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