Episode 116: First Eat Your Frog, and Other Pearls for Professional Working Mothers with Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that I'm perfect here as Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA.

DJ Stutz  0:09  
Welcome heroes and heroines to Episode 116 of Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world, and I'm your host DJ Stutz.

Before we get started, I'd like to tell you about a great opportunity. Are you ready to become the ultimate guide in your child's development journey? Little Hearts Academy USA has a new self-paced Cicerone Master's class. This is a transformative course designed to empower parents with the knowledge and tools that they need to foster their children's social, emotional, and academic readiness for school. There are four comprehensive modules to help you dive deep into understanding your parenting style, and how it impacts your child's growth. Learn to navigate the critical stages of your child's development with confidence and ease and understand how to best support your child as they get ready for school and throughout their early grades. Register for the masterclass by visiting the website, www.LittleHeartsAcademyUSA.com or by simply clicking on the link in the show notes. 

And today we have a fantastic treat for you. We are joined by none other than the brilliant Dr. Elizabeth Arleo, and the author of the must read book First Eat Your Frog and Other Pearls for Professional Working Mothers. Now I know as parents we often feel like we're trying to juggle a circus act while riding a unicycle. And Dr. Arleo is here to help us find the perfect balance. In this episode, we're delving into the art of setting priorities and learning to give ourselves that much needed dose of grace. And after all, none of us can do it all. But together we can certainly do the important things. Dr. Arleo brings not only her expertise but also a dash of light hearted humor to the table. She knows what she's talking about. Get this. She is a board certified radiologist specializing in breast and body imaging, and a fellow of the American College of Radiology, the Society of Breast Imaging. She is a Professor of Radiology at the Will Cornell Medical College and an attending radiologist at the New York Presbyterian Hospital. Oh, I'm not even done yet. Dr. Arleo is also the editor in chief of the radiology journal Clinical Imaging. And that isn't even all she does. But it's all I have time to mention. She reminds us that it is perfectly okay to let a few balls drop in the air as long as we're holding on to the ones that truly matter. And we'll explore the secrets to reclaiming your time finding joy in parenting, and achieving that elusive work life harmony. So whether you're a working parent, a stay at home parent, or just somewhere in between, get ready for an episode packed with wisdom, laughter and a renewed sense of purpose. Without further ado, let's welcome Dr. Elizabeth Arleo to this show. There's so much to learn. So let's get started. 

Welcome, everyone, I'm so excited to have you back at Imperfect Heroes podcast. And I just want to make sure that you guys know that we are showing our video on YouTube and Rumble now. And so if you have comments, if you like what you hear, give us a thumbs up, make a comment. We'd love to hear what you are interested in. And be sure to like and follow. And that's going to help us along as well. You know, I don't know how I got so blessed. I am just blessed with so many amazing people that I've been able to connect with to have his guests on the program. And Elizabeth Arleo is no exception. And so she's written a book First Eat Your Frog. Yep, there it is. Yeah. And so Elizabeth, talk to us a little bit about that.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  4:28  
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you so much for the opportunity to be on your show today. I really appreciate it. I am a mother of three I have three girls ages 6, 11 and 14 and I'm a practicing physician. I specialize in radiology and I just got back from the office. So here I am in my scrubs. And I'm also an editor and writer on the side. So this is my first book First Eat Your Frog. And I'm thrilled that it came out on International Women's Day. You can find it on Amazon. And in it I talked about eight lessons or rolls of wisdom that I've learned, I'm learning in the 15, almost 15 years since I first became a professional working mother.

DJ Stutz  5:08  
Wow, that is just so much when you think about three girls, and they're at such an active, exciting age, you know, where you're able to really make some amazing connections and engage. But that takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. And then you're a doctor and you're doing your radiology and saving lives and making a difference. And then I don't know where you find the time to write and edit. You're just a Wonder Woman, I guess.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  5:37  
I'm an imperfect and imperfect hero. I love the hopefully hero, definitely imperfect. You know, I feel most here like when I really, you know, help a patient or I feel the need. But yeah, I think it's part of part of one of my number one pearls is and I have a whole chapter on this is don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. So I could start given the topic of the title of your show. Maybe that's the first pro I'll talk a little bit about.

DJ Stutz  6:04  
Yeah, for sure. Because that is such an important one, you know. And the reason we titled the show, the way we did is because, you know, parents who are trying, they're sticking around, they're doing their best. And some have different levels of success than others. Some define success differently than others. And all of that is okay. But I don't know if you're a believer, I'm a believer, but even Christ, and Joseph and Mary who are mortal, and I am sure they had their days, right. And so there's never been a perfect parent ever. And we all get tired and hungry and stressed out and overwhelmed. And I'm sick and tired of your fighting. We have those days. And, and that's okay. So talk to us a little bit about how you expand on not letting perfect get in the way?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  7:02  
Yes, absolutely. So don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good is a quotation attributed to Voltaire, who was a French philosopher in the 1700s, whose words of wisdom are true today, because they've just really endured across the ages. And what it means to me as is aside for I do not have this quotation in my office because it would patient care, that's the one area that I still try for as close to humanly perfect perfection as possible. But outside of patient care, what don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good means to me is that, you know, if there's a task at hand, at the office or at home, I try as a recovering perfectionist to be a satisficer. Meaning if there's a test, I tried to set criteria for it. And once those criteria are met, then I'm done and satisfied. Like if I'm looking for a restaurant, go, you know, special treat after dinner with the family, I'm looking for family friendly restaurant with a pizza or by pressing my little one, and a good happy hour for me and my husband and wife says, I'm done. I'm satisfied. I'm gonna remind myself not to keep scrolling through, you know, the internet for perfect restaurant because that perfect restaurant doesn't exist. And reminding ourselves not to strive for perfection is not humanly attainable. So reminding ourselves, not to strive for it is helpful, because if you strive for the unattainable, then this can lead to anxiety and depression. Right? Yeah,

DJ Stutz  8:29  
remember to give yourself that little bit of grace. Okay, things didn't go perfectly, but they're all in bed. If I know where they all are. You can give yourselves those kinds of Pat's on the back. I don't care if they're sleeping in their clothes. In fact, I know some parents who they struggle with the whole clothing thing getting dressed in the morning. They just get them dressed at night sleeping your clothes, were ready to go in the morning.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  8:53  
Yes, I read about that years ago. And I thought it was genius. And I tried it with my older too. And all of a sudden, my little one came up with the idea herself. And I'm like, I am totally for it. Absolutely. I love it. So she's already thinking efficiently and she's sick. Another five minutes, that I am all for that for everybody. So yeah.

DJ Stutz  9:12  
And what a great thing. She's already a problem solver. Yeah, love it. Yeah. And that's what we're trying to encourage and develop in our kids while they're in those fun foundational years. You know, from birth to eight is when they're really starting to look at how they look at themselves and how they look at the world and am I a victim or even my Victor, and all of those things that are happening? And I think to that, just having a sense of humor about it. And there's so many things, my kids are all grown I've got 12 grandkids now. We have five kids and it's just hysterical that some of the things are just like at the time, and now we get together we all look back and they are sources of of great entertainment, you know, generally at my expense, but that's okay. If we're laughing, I don't care. And so sometimes I was out with a friend of mine, when the kids were younger. And she was, you know, we used to have those old video cameras, rather than our phones. But we were at the park and the kids are having fun. And her son, who was probably six or seven around there, just had a total meltdown. And so I was actually working with him when she's realized that she grabbed her camera and comes up, she catches me with it, talking to her son, and she said, yeah, that's for the wedding reel. And I thought, What a great sense of humor, like instead of being embarrassed or, you know, devastated that her son did, whatever. But she just saw the humor in it already. What a great head start, I guess. Absolutely. Yeah. And so what are some of the ways then that we talk about getting away from that need for perfection.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  11:04  
I think one of the other things that's helped me very much and I talked about in this book, is the importance of it can be very helpful to think about time in 168, into a set of 24 hour chunks. And with this, and you can help away from perfection. So what I mean by this is, you know, the equation is we all have 24 hours a day, seven days a week equaling 168 hours. So the fact of the matter is that even if you work 50 hours a week, which is more than most people, and sleep could be hours a week, which would be eight hours a night, which sounds perfectly delicious to most professional working mothers. And the math is you still have over 60 hours after work and sleep for your priorities, whatever they may be for your family and friends, or your community. So how does this help us as professional working mothers? Well, I and getting away from perfection, I think it does be in both, it lessens the pressure. In other words, whereas you can't do it all or have it all or do perfectly within 24 hours, you think about time in 168 hours. The fact of the matter is, is we do have 60 hours to do the things that are most important for us. So it's about taking the time not to do everything we're at or anything perfectly, but figuring out what our priorities are, and knowing there's time for that,

DJ Stutz  12:23  
for sure. And I think that there's a syndrome that happens, and I know that once I mean, you know, my kids were basically growing up their past the eight year old stage when I went back to work, and actually back to school and finished my degree. But there is a thing of maybe a guilt, my kids are missing out on this, oh, we really don't have time to for them to be in X, Y or Z. And, and they they start putting that guilt on them. And it makes things worse for them. It makes things worse for their kids to because now they're feeling that guilt, that mom's feeling and moms feeling more and more stressed about it, that stress will pass on into the family, because that's just how it works. And so how do we help parents moms and dads, honestly, because dads go through it too. But how do we help them get over that? Oh, we can't do three sports, you're gonna have to pick one, which I think is better for them anyway, whether you're at home or half working somewhere else. And and so how do we help get them past that?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  13:35  
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a challenge for both parents of all genders and children. And I think it's an opportunity because because there's not endless time, there's not endless money, and there's not enough people to do everything. So I think it's an opportunity for both parent and child to sit down and just say like, frankly, transparently put the issue on the table. And think about what priorities are. So beginning of a prioritize everything is an opportunity cost you do one thing, you can't do the other and just working your child to find what his or her priority is. And if you can try to make it happen if you go ahead and try it. And you can always nothing is written in stone, you can always reassess in a week or two or a month or a quarter or semester. Yeah, so definitely how's it going for both of us? Or if you can't achieve priority one, like I hear you that that's your priority, like maybe we can save up to do that for the future. Let's plan B I definitely use the verbiage Plan A, B, C, sometimes we're getting to the end with my kids and they understand that's life.

DJ Stutz  14:38  
Right? Right. And I know that money can you brought that up? And I thought that's such an important thing because a lot of times when we have working parents money really is an issue, especially if you're a single parent trying to manage everything on your own. That's a whole nother big thing that we need to give some grace for. But I remember so when I was teaching I was a parenting facilitator in Las Vegas for the Division of Family new services. And I had a class that I was doing. And on day one, I asked, What is your biggest concern today. And this one dad said, My son wants to play baseball, and I don't have the money for him to join a team. And so we spend a little bit of time brainstorming with the class and whatever. So he was writing down some ideas, some of them he'd already tried. And they didn't work. But so he wrote down some ideas, while the class was a six week long thing. So in the last week, we spent a little time at the end with sharing. And he said that he wanted to share what happened was, he decided that he did have some time after work in the evenings, right? And so instead of sitting down and watching SportsCenter or whatever, that he picked up the baseball and the mitts and they went out, and he said, we're going to do our own baseball practice. And so every week night after he got home and cleaned up or whatever, he went outside and was throwing the ball and teaching them some batting stances and going through some of those fundamental skills. Well, after just a few days of doing that a neighbor kid came by, you said, Are you are you doing baseball? No, it's Hockey. We're just using a baseball bat. No, he wasn't. But he said, Yeah, he goes, Can I play? Yeah, come on in. He said, by the time we were done, they had something like 10 or 11 kids that were coming out to practice baseball with this dampness on, a couple of dads started coming out even. And they wound up with this fabulous group. And he said yesterday, so it was the day before our last class, they'd actually gone down to the park that was a few blocks away, split the kids up and just played baseball. And some of the moms made some food and brought it and they had just this fun outing. And they were going to keep it going through the summer. And I thought, wow, I mean, now that's problem solving, when instead of just saying no, we can't we don't have money. Or even worse, well, we could if your dad would pay his child support, or that's a terrible thing to say. But he figured out a way to solve it. And move forward with that. And I think that thinking out of the box, sometimes it makes you feel better. Right? As parent, look at this huge problem I solved, makes the kids feel better. And I thought, What about the relationship with this kid and his dad? Absolutely. Was it better? Because they did the little one? Or would it have been better if he joined a team? Absolutely. So many of us out there. Yeah, so many, so many. So I just want to make sure that parents are following your advice and really looking at that and, and giving themselves some grace. I love that. Do you have another Perl you'd like to share?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  18:03  
Sure, I guess my third favorite of the book it comes to is the title first eat your frog. What is Yeah, I don't know about it. Unless I guess you're in parts of your grants are brought to Louisiana actually frog legs are a thing. But I don't literally mean eat your frog. What I mean by it. This is a quotation that comes from Mark Twain, who said if it's your job to eat a frog, it's best to eat it first thing in the morning. And if it's your job to eat two frogs, it's best to start with a larger one. Meaning that's to take care of the most important thing as early as possible in the day or week, or whatever time period you're dealing with. And, you know, I've had this on my wall in my office, this quotation posted for years and how does this help us as professional working mothers? I think it does. And fathers, you know, as parents in two ways, I would say one, you know, it sets or sets yourself up for success, because Come What May the most important thing has been taken care of. And two, it also like lessens the mental load or the mental load is all the things you have going on in your head. You know what the lists you have the organizing it taking care of, you know, all the people who are dependent on you. Yeah, so for example, I'll say like as a public service announcement, I is in radiology, I focused in women's imaging. So the recommendation by the American College of Radiology and society of breast imaging is for annual screening mammography, starting at age 40. And continuing for as long as a woman is in good health. And yet screening can be anxiety provoking for many women, myself included, even so what I like to do is schedule my annual screening mammogram as early as possible in the month or week or day that I'm having it done so that I set myself up for success taking care of myself physically and less than low because I don't have to worry all week about you know, getting it done.

DJ Stutz  19:53  
Right, right. What a great idea. And I think that that's really good. So when we're talking about priority tising, right. And here's another way that we can bring our kids in on it to, you know, we can talk to them about what's the most important thing that we have to do this week or tomorrow, right? And then make sure that the kids are in on it as well and how to accomplish all have that, right. I love that. And prioritizing is, like I said, I'm, like you said, just so important. And now we can talk about, you know, one of the things that I work on with my families is understanding how we sabotage ourselves. And then becoming strategic. And this is one of the processes of becoming strategic is really looking at okay, what are the big things? What are my frogs that I have to do this week, this month, tomorrow, today? And then and then go from there? And yeah, that is, that is a key key development. And when you include your kids in it, even from the time that they're little, because they may say, the most important thing you have to do tomorrow is take me to the park. Right? And they probably not really too wrong. If you can figure it out and make it work, you know,

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  21:16  
absolutely. And the priorities change over over time, will be the most important thing for, you know, that eight group, whatever the range may be, you know, now my for example, my daughter is 11. She's in sixth grade, the homework is ramping up with homework, so say what, which subject is your frog? It should be like Matt, Mike ventually, eat my frog. He goes and takes care of it takes care of her math. So I mean, yeah, there's a lot of we use it now, given the book and my family, and everybody knows me, it's a very quick, it's very efficient. Everybody else wants to eat your frog. I love that

DJ Stutz  21:52  
you've given that to your family, what a gift that's been, and what a fun thing to say, Yeah, I'm gonna eat my frog, you know. And that's just such a great way to engage your kids in to something that sounds a little silly or a little goofy, but they know what it means. Right? And, and they have that and the chances are so much better that they're going to follow through. Because just because something is I'm going to Eat That Frog is so silly that it makes it engaging.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  22:23  
Right? That's a little fun and whimsy as well.

DJ Stutz  22:26  
Absolutely. When I'm big on whimsy, big on whimsy, you should see my office here. Anyway, so. And I think to that, when you're doing these kinds of things, when we're as adults are doing these kinds of things, right. And our children are understanding it. But I think that as we talk about it out loud, so we may not even be talking directly to the kid. But the kids in the vicinity, and you're verbalizing yourself, you know, all right, what's my frog? Or what's the first thing I need to do? And oh, I'm sure everyone's hungry. I need to first thing I need to do and I'm prioritizing. I've got three things I need to do. And and you may not think they're listening. They're listening.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  23:13  
Oh, yeah. Agree. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  23:16  
In fact, it was funny. We were in church, just this last this last week. And there was a cat. She's like, 1920 years old. And she was doing a little presentation. And we were laughing my husband and I were laughing because she she must have said it like 50 times in her little presentation. I'm not gonna lie. Right? And, and so we were joking around about just my husband, I quietly just about how I'm not gonna lie, you know, what is that? Like, why? And then her dad got up to do another part was a family thing. And so her dad got up and guess what he said, I'm not gonna lie. Like, oh, that's where she gets it. And so, it's just fun that he I'm sure he did not sit down with her and explain to her that using I'm not gonna lie, you know, every third sentence, you know, is a wonderful thing to do. And yeah, it was that trait and she picked up on it without even being told, that can expand into all kinds of behaviors and sayings and attitudes, when they see that YouTube when you and your spouse are, you know, struggling with an issue, and they say it's okay for them to see you. I mean, you know, talking things out and they will be like, Oh, they're not they're having a disagreement, but then let them see you work it out, too. And let them see that there's compromise and there's give and take and, and even though I may be upset, I'm going to speak respectfully, or whatever. They're going to learn those things and to so much better as they move along in their lives by the example, you set,

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  25:03  
absolutely my husband, I have very different styles. He's a lawyer. And so what he does during the day and what I do the day, that's what our respective fields takes different skills. And it's hard to like, turn it off, where that's just a natural part of who you are. And so we definitely have different styles. And I think it's, though can be challenging. At times, it's good for the, you know, the our kids to see different styles of communication and that strive to be respectful. And you can arrive at a at a compromise or problem solve together.

DJ Stutz  25:34  
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I too, I think, when you talk about the eating your frog. So for me, I talked about the first five minutes. So if you're a working parent, that's kind of what we're talking about today. If you're working parent, and whether you're picking your kids up at school, or childcare, or you come home, and the other parents already brought the kids home, there's all kinds of scenarios that can be going on. The first thing that those kids for five minutes, need they need to hear, where are my kiddos? Where are my babies, and, you know, I missed you all day, or I had a really rough day at work. And I was just thinking about how nice it was going to be to come home to you guys. And and you fill that bucket and you give your spouse a, you know, a peck on the cheek or whatever. And they see that there's that relationship that they're safe in as well. And then you can excuse yourself and say, I need to go up and change or whatever, I'll be gone for 10 minutes. It's been a really bad day, you may need 20 minutes. But but then you can go up and do your calming down or do it before you come in. And and I think that that's that is I would say a frog, when you first come in is if you want your kids to be excited to see you when you come home. Daddy, right? What a good feeling that is. But if you want that you have to earn it. And that's how you earn it.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  26:58  
Absolutely. So fun. That's a good reminder for all of us.

DJ Stutz  27:04  
Yeah, so I think we've got time do you have? Can we hit one more?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  27:09  
Yeah, I one of my next ones, I would say would be stop over apologizing, I would say this would be protected, particularly for professional working mothers, although I think many of the girls by book are applicable to all genders to stop over pot, I would say, particularly for women and I would define over apologizing. And again, this, this all relates to trying to be okay with not being perfect. But I would define over apologizing, as apologizing too frequently, or when it's not indicated. And obviously, saying I'm sorry, when you've done something wrong is very important for successful your personal relationships. And yet, apologizing when it's not indicated can be a real weakness, personally, as well as focused on the professionally. So I would say how it can really harm us as professional working women in the workplace. If we you know, go to ask for something, a raise more flexibility of office space. And you just are unconsciously saying like, I'm sorry to interrupt you, I'm sorry to before schedule. I'd like if I if you start by apologizing, you're putting the person you're asking in a position to be more likely to say no. And so it can really be a problem in the professional setting. So I would I learned this from a chair of radiology who came in, spoke a number of years ago. And she said that over the years, she's had men and women come into her office and ask for things, as I said, and she just noticed that women often start with I'm sorry, when there's absolutely no reason. And when she, I started listening to myself, and if you listen to yourself and those around you, you hear how often the word perfect, how often the word perfect also, and I'm sorry, both of them, it's actually shocking, you listen to for both. And so I think that's the first start self awareness, listening to yourself and those around you. And I've asked my girls to call me on it. Like, if you hear me over pa apologizing words that indicated, please call me on it, because I don't want to do it. I don't want to model this for you. And vice versa. So we call each other. And, you know, depending on what you're saying you can, it's hard to change our speech pattern, you can try to replace it with something else like please or eliminate it.

DJ Stutz  29:28  
Well, and I love how you brought your kids in to help you find your awareness on it and engaging them in that process. And I was thinking as you were saying that, you know, your mind goes. And I was thinking about how often I said just in the grocery store or at Walmart or wherever you're going. But you come around the corner, right and someone's there. And so you either stop and let them go or whatever. But how many times do you say Oh, I'm sorry. And I wonder if that's an indication. The next time you go just to the groceries or go shopping or whatever count how many times you naturally just say, Oh, I'm sorry, because someone was looking at something or you were trying to reach for something or whatever. And I hear it all the time, too, don't you?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  30:16  
Absolutely. Absolutely. And tying back to perfect, perfect. Also see how often you hear perfect pepper, your speech and other people sweet. I really, really strive to replace perfect as well and try to eliminate from my vocabulary because verbiage is important. And it sets up unrealistic expectations or with too many, um, saris. You know, just putting you on the downstairs step for

DJ Stutz  30:38  
no reason. Yeah. Well, you've really brought something to my mind that hasn't really been there before. Now I've got something new to think about and, and see how I can improve my life. And again, not expecting perfection. Right. But that's, that's I think, when we talk about imperfect heroes, the hero part of it is constantly understanding that perfection is out of reach, but improvement is not. Absolutely. And that's what makes you the hero part is looking for ways to improve. And just to be happier. I did a podcast a while ago, about the the he wrote the book, I can appreciate that. And it was his journey from being a very negative, glass half empty kind of guy to becoming a more positive person. And, you know, that is an interesting struggle, I think, for all of us. And I love the way that you've presented it, as well. That's just awesome. I love the idea of your book and what's going on there. And so how would they get that book?

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  31:46  
Absolutely thank you can find it on first eat your frog on amazon.com. And also on bookshop.org. Still order online, but support your local bookshelf sellers.

DJ Stutz  31:57  
I love it. And I love to supporting your local book shops. I love going to a bookshop. And so is there any other way that you would encourage people to find you socials, any of that stuff.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  32:09  
You could find me on social media, on LinkedIn, on Twitter, and on Instagram, Dr. Aurelio we're at Dr Aurelio ar,

DJ Stutz  32:18  
ar l, e, o. Now, I know everyone's in a panic because they want all this information. And they don't have a pen in their hand or a paper. So guess what, it's just down in the show notes. And there's a picture of the book, you can see it if you're watching on YouTube or rumble, you can see the picture of it. And we're going to make sure that you have all that information. So you can just click on it. If you scroll down. And if you're scrolling down and looking at things, why don't you hit a like and a follow and tell a friend about it. Leave a comment, we'd love to hear what you think about today's topic. And so, Doctor earlier though, I always end with the same questions that my listeners know. But I'd love to hear how you would describe a successful parent,

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  33:06  
a successful parent involved with you know, a child and I think any relationship is going to be a two way street. So it's got to be successful for both the parent and the child to be successful that and it's bi directional involves loving and being loved. And that may be in different ways for different parents and for different children. And if it's if it's happy in that way between the two and satisfying, but that's a successful parent, loving and being loved.

DJ Stutz  33:39  
Yes, I agree with you so much. And there's nothing like that feeling of being loved. Especially when our kids and they maybe they've messed up maybe they've done something wrong, and they feel unlovable, and happens to every kid is just part of life. But this is how you secure them is when they when you least feel like again them. Right? Is when you they need to know they're loved. I love your reminder. Thank you so much. And so Doctor earlier, I want to encourage everyone to check out your book. It's amazing. First, eat your frog. And we'll we'll talk to you again sometime. Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Elizabeth Kagan Arleo  34:21  
Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you today.

DJ Stutz  34:26  
And if you want to learn more about Dr. Arleo and her book, just click on the link there in the show notes. And while you're there, hit the Follow button and make sure you're getting in on the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you like what you heard in today's podcast, be sure to rate and review and then please tell a friend. You can do this whether you listen to Apple, Spotify or some other platform or if you listen from the imperfect heroes podcast website. So on that website, you just click on the top where it says Reviews, and then leave a review. And it's that easy. And if you're watching on YouTube or Rumble, be sure to follow, we love to spread the word. 

We've all heard that kids don't come with a manual, but a book came out on August 1 called The Parenting Owner's Manual. And it's a compilation of 33 family experts from around the world. And yours truly is chapter three. So order your copy today on Amazon and guess what? The link is in the show notes. You can also find the link on my website, which is www.LittleHeartsAcademyUSA.com And you are going to be so surprised to hear that the link is also in the show notes. And next week. My guest is Terry Sizemore who just happens to be the publisher of my own upcoming children's book. Roman is Bigger, and we are talking about faith and children's literature. So check it out and see and until next time, let's find joy in parenting.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai