Episode 127: Raising Resilient Kids Using Gratitude’s Power with Jeff Nelligan

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA.

DJ Stutz  0:09  
Welcome heroes and heroines to Episode 127 of Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world. And I'm your host DJ Stutz.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into parenting, where we explore the extraordinary world of parenting. I am DJ, your go to early childhood specialist, podcast or author and parent coach. And I hope you all had a lovely Happy Thanksgiving that was filled with family and the music of life. 

Well, today I am talking with Jeff Nelligan, who is a renowned commentator in the realm of American parenting. And he has a fascinating journey and fatherhood. He is the father of three sons, and you'll get to know more about them during our conversation. Jeff is a well known authority in parenting and has been featured on many parenting magazines, and he's been featured in NPR, he is best known for helping parents build resilience in their children. And today, we're talking about the role that gratitude plays in just that. Jeff is so great, and he has such a positive can do attitude that just shines in his work. And if you would like to know more about Jeff and his books, just click on the links in the show notes. 

And while you're there, hit the Follow button to make sure you are getting in on the amazing episodes that we have each week. And if you like what you hear on today's podcast, be sure to rate, review and tell a friend. It's so easy and it helps us reach more families. And next week, I am talking about managing those holiday schedules without the overwhelm for you or the kids. So check it out and see now on to my conversation with Jeff. Now again, there's so much to learn. So let's get started. Welcome, everybody, and thanks for deciding to spend the next few minutes here at Imperfect Heroes. And before we get going, I just want to remind everybody that you can always catch us on Rumble, the Imperfect Heroes channel, and on YouTube at Little Hearts Academy USA. 

So today, I have an amazing guest and it's been so much fun getting to know Jeff, as we got talking, we just talked and talked we just got along so well. We found out that his son is friends with my nephew at West Point. So his son just graduated last year. And my nephew is a senior this year. And it's just been fun. It's just been great. But, Jeff, you have three boys? Yes, I do. And Jeff Nelligan is an author. So I've got two of his books right here. So this one is Four Lessons From My Three Sons. And this one is a really like amazing book two, they're both great. But this one is called Your Kids Rebound from Pandemic Lockdowns and how we're going to help our kids rebound from that. And as a teacher who was helping kids go through that, it was just so hard for them. And I taught kindy kids, but just the loss of socialization and the ability to communicate and look at someone in the eye when you're talking to them. And all those skills that is so important. We're coming up. In fact, I was just talking over the weekend with a teacher that I used to teach with and I helped coach teachers too, who are students that they're struggling with. And and she was saying I need your help. But she's got a classroom of 13 boys and three girls. Wow. And she said, when I'm talking to them, it's like you're talking to air, they totally ignore you. They have no ability to even like sit for even a few minutes, just to do a morning routine just to count how many kids are there today. So we did some problem solving and stuff. But all of these I think are so much more than it was before the pandemic, you'd get a kid or two sometimes that had been overly spoiled or whatever and didn't feel like they had to listen to anybody. But now it's just in such great numbers. And so coming up with those strategies can be really hard. So today, you are amazing. And we're going to have you back on talking about boys and raising boys. And I feel like that's so important. I feel like we need to let our boys be boys. And yeah, and encourage that. But with the holidays coming up and Thanksgiving is in a week. We want to talk about how do you build gratitude within our kids. We know that living in grad To help them with their mental health, that helps them with managing stress. It helps them with valuing other people. There's just so many big things. So, Jeff, why don't you talk to me a little bit just about what you have going on and how you help people. And then let's talk about how you built that feeling of gratitude with your boys.

Jeff Nelligan  5:19  
Certainly, Jeff Nelligan, you know, as deejays pointed out the author of those two books, four lessons from my three sons and your kids rebound from pandemic lockdowns. I'm the father of three, and all three are military officers. And it was when the last kid left for college again, DJ mentioned West Point where he knows her nephew, I decided that I would sit down and write about, you know, what I thought were the best qualities for kids to have in this present culture in this present age. And that's how four lessons came about. And the big emphasis there was on the four grounds stones, personal conduct, building confidence, confronting adversity, and of course, pursuing ambition. And so those were the kinds of four foundations of how the the sons were raised. And then following upon that, as DJ has already highlighted, pretty darn well, the fallout from pandemic, lockdown school closures, confinement, the masking, just the absolute turmoil that society went through for for little gain whatsoever. And when you talk about gratitude, I'll tell you a DJ, how much gratitude did we have, after about one week of lockdowns in March of 2020, gratitude that we had formerly not had for a day where we could, and our kids could walk out of the house, and get on a school bus and sit in a classroom. And we could go about our jobs without any kind of encumbrance. And then all of a sudden, a week after we had that gratitude, it all ended. And we were locked in our homes and away from our jobs and schools. So the whole idea of if you had gratitude going into it, you were able to understand that I've got some basic fundamental gifts, and the lock downs in the school closures are not going to change those. And indeed, for a parent, I would thank DJ and your parents too. And people who are listening to this, the gratitude begins, the moment the child is born, how lucky are you to have this wonderful child that you know that you're going to be responsible for and be able to guide as long as you're alive, that becomes the foundation of the gratitude of being a parent? Yeah.

DJ Stutz  7:49  
And I think that's key for us as parents too, as we're parenting is sometimes our kids can be a little quirky. Boys by the girls fight too. And it's like, they fight about different things generally. But it's still that tension that can come when they're defiant. Or they're having their little meltdown in the middle of the store, or in church or whatever. And sometimes you're thinking, Am I really still grateful? But we are and I think though, in those hard moments, we do need to really remember that we are grateful, even for the hard moments, because those hard moments are opportunities for our children to learn. But it's also an opportunity for us to learn, too. We learn about ourselves, and we learn about our kids. And we can stand back and without being angry about it. But it's a different tone of voice and say what went wrong here? And yeah, evaluate, look at it and say, Okay, I can learn from this. And so we can even become grateful for the hard moments.

Jeff Nelligan  8:59  
No question. I mean, the trials is where you're going to get your most growth. And when you're in that situation you've just described, there's two things you need, you need that grace, and patience. And that grace and patience is part of being a parent is seeing the long game. It's not a day to day slog, it's, you're looking way down a football field, and you're at the 10 yard line on the other side, and you're saying this is going to be day by day, yard by yard. And these moments will come as well to successful moments. And if you don't have that long horizon, that view, you're going to be absolutely wretched and consumed by these momentary lapses or momentary misgivings and scenes and you'll never get to the other end of the field.

DJ Stutz  9:49  
Right? And you're so right and I love the football analogy, of course, big football fan, but my back our whole family, if you didn't do football, you weren't gonna really survive. Haven't our family for a while. So I love the football analogy. Because as you're going down marching down the field, it's not just do I have the strength to make it all the way. But there are a lot of things that are in my way, mainly big football players, and why we come up against the defense, so to speak, as we're trying to march down the field. And so how do we help them maneuver that and keep that positive attitude after they've been knocked down? How many times? Right,

Jeff Nelligan  10:32  
I would say there's two things First of all, your football analogy when the way you talk about it, your son becoming a coach, I just love that my brother, but yeah, your brother, I mean, that's just the best is that football is all about moving the chains. And moving the chains means that every day, there's going to be a little success, and maybe a larger success. And maybe there's going to be some setbacks. But that after a certain period of time, you've moved the change enough that you get that other next chance, because you've got the first down. So you're looking at life in that kind of example, the idea of moving slowly, steadily forward, consistency, sustainability. The second thing is, yeah, your kid, your family is going up against that defense and getting knocked down. But the other thing that's happening is your kids on that team, and the team is the family. And the team provides a support. And, frankly, it's good, a kid gets knocked down. That's one of the major themes of both of those books, but for lessons in particular, is that the sooner your kid gets knocked down, the better, because no one gets a free ride in the world, not adults, and certainly not kids. And the sooner that they hit that wall and that obstacle and can get back up and either get around it or get over it, the better because that just serves as a learning moment that they will encounter and gain confidence from for the rest of their lives. My kids went through them, I put them through this sometimes that challenge that test that task. And starting slowly, they became more adept, as years went on, on meaning bigger and bigger challenges. And of course, now being military officers and doing what they do the challenges come every day in the real world, as we were speaking about earlier, not a college classroom, the deck of an aircraft carrier a whole different ballgame.

DJ Stutz  12:37  
Absolutely, it is. And so as you have a child that has the confidence to look around and say, oh, okay, it may be a big problem or something that has to be dealt with quickly. But when they have the confidence that I can handle this, let me think. And that thought process is gonna go way faster than what I'm talking about. But they think it through they see a solution, and they move forward with it. And another thing that I think of is that if there wasn't the defense that was working to keep you from moving the chain, so to speak, without them, you're just running down the field, it's just a jogging trip. Yeah. I mean, there's nothing. And so you score and what's the joy in that? What's the raw, and so it's really been fun watching the football season this year, and you'll see guys, they'll make a big play or whatever they're like, they're so excited. I'm like, You're a 32 year old man and, and you leave with them, right? But it's because of the opposition because of the defense that's there that makes something feel joy and gaining the achievement in Yes, and you may not make the touchdown, you may have just made the first down or just move the ball further a little bit. And so we joy that in. And that's something you see, they get so excited about, they do have to tackle or whatever. And they're so excited. We can see that in our own kids and be grateful for the challenges that they're facing. And sometimes you want to give them the skills and you've been really good. And you talked about that and your books, giving them the skills to have practicing overcoming some of these challenges and being independent and being confident. And so then when they actually are faced with the situation, they know what to do. Right, right. And they get to show this joy and confidence. They might not be dancing around like a football player, but maybe they will. And isn't that a great thing?

Jeff Nelligan  14:33  
It certainly isn't, like we were talking about earlier. You give them the challenges you give them the tasks early on. Perfect example from the book. When my kids were about seven, about five and a half and four and a half. We were in an indoor mall and I pulled out my wallet and said gave each kid a $5 bill and I said guys, go get change. And don't come back until you have the change and don't Don't worry, it's not a race, right, and I let them go. And they came back, all three of them, one kid struck out at one store and other kid brought back like 40 quarters. But the idea was, here's a real life task that they had to do on themselves, you mentioned perfectly the word independence, this is independent, as you're going to get with a five year old. And we played this change the five frequently in all different kinds of places. And then we graduated, we'd go to a grocery store and say, Here's your list, you've got 35 items to get, here's your cart, you go get them, I'll get the rest. We go to a restaurant, or a 711. And we park outside. And some of these are in sketchy places. And I say, here's 20 bucks, get these four things, and come back to the car with the change. And an airport as they got older. Here's all the ticketing material, go get us the boarding passes, we'll be waiting right here. And this is at the age of nine. So you continue to give these kids these tests of independence, and again, your Word of independents, and then they rise to the occasion. And they keep rising and rising. So suddenly, when they're unfamiliar position, or in a little bit of an odd place where there's room for panic. They don't panic. The perfect example, my youngest kid was at a shopping mall, a big indoor mall with some very irresponsible parents at a birthday party. And the parents took 13 of the 16 kids and walked into a theater leaving three other kids behind in the middle of a food court. And you can imagine the panic that these three kids felt one of them was my son is five years old. But he remembered, he said, You know, I told him, even when he was really young, I said, And it came up at a college football game, you're ever lost, you're too short to see anything. So all you have to do is look for that guy, or that female with a stripe running down their pants, because it's either a policeman or a soldier. And that guy just run up to that guy and grab him and say, help me. And that person will. Well of course that kicks in. So they've got these two kids who are both of them are in tears. And my kid says look for the striped pants. And finally they find one after about five minutes. And of course, the parents are oblivious. They're in the theater watching the movie. And the kid gets sorted out. But it works. Because he understood in that moment, an unusual moment that there are ways to get around this. And if you're learning that lesson at five, by the age of 10, you can handle a lot. And by the age of 15, and then 18. And then 20, you're calm no matter what happens, because you've been through it so many times before,

DJ Stutz  17:52  
right? Well, I wonder it was there ever a point where your boys looked back and said, Dad, I am so grateful that you put us in these situations. And now I know what to do. Have you ever looked back and said that was a good move, Dad, I

Jeff Nelligan  18:09  
will say that they have at times said I'm glad I went through that. Which is kind of weird coming from a kid or a young person, you know, a teen or young adult, that I'm glad I went through that because I know now from this perspective of several years that it was the best thing to happen. And the corollary the thing that we'll mention afterwards, I managed to get through that. And someone that has that kind of outlook on life that can look back at stuff that was pretty troubling. And say I managed to get through that. Boy that's to carry that along with you through the rest of your life is just that as like a steel rod. It's having absolute confidence that hate something like that's gonna come up again. But I have this muscle memory and this mind memory of getting through the bad thing a long time ago. So maybe that's an answer to your question. Kids would say, I'm glad I went through that.

DJ Stutz  19:07  
And too. You had a five year old who knew to look for someone with the striped pants. Yeah. Yeah. The parents of the other boys. Oh, but they were pretty grateful that your son knew what to do. Well,

Jeff Nelligan  19:18  
yeah, the two other kids were sobbing. I mean, they were just in a massive food court and a huge mall. And there's KhoiKhoi was KhoiKhoi your nephews Powell? Yes. Who just, I know what to do here. My dad told me this a long time ago. And it got the kids calm down. But it also helped that dad two older brothers, so he wasn't in the way of losing it because he had these two great role models ahead of him. But that's what happened. You

DJ Stutz  19:46  
just said something that just kind of gave me goosebumps in that you said he had these two older brothers that were great role models and you know what a blessing man that had to be and yeah, I've still got the goose but But How great is that for having older sons that understand? And always they're always going to have their little disagreements and whatever, we're all human. Actually, the disagreements within a family are part of our natural progression in life. So it's with the siblings, that you learn to stand up for yourself that you learn to negotiate and compromise and all those things. And so have your kids work something out on their own is not a bad thing. No, no. But for them to realize I'm setting an example for this younger kid and to have quite quiet, be at a point where he can look up and learn from you, your wife, as well as older brothers. What a great thing that is.

Jeff Nelligan  20:47  
Yeah, it is. And as you said earlier, disagreements are good. Couldn't agree more. Because if you didn't have any disagreements with your siblings, what the heck's going on in that family that everyone wants just, you know, like a zombie, of course, you're gonna have disagreements, if you're not like, that's wrong, you know, you've got to have disagreements. And when you have any time, I'll tell you, DJ, anytime I hear someone, some of my colleagues, younger colleagues at work, or in the community, you know, they have a child. And the first thing I say is, have another because that kid that you just had needs that companionship, that eternal companionship that comes from having a sibling, a brother or sister, and then have more, because that family becomes tight. And at the same time, a tight family. People get motivated. The eldest was motivated, dragged along the second it dragged along the third. So in addition to the motivation factor, was also the eternal companionship factor, which is essential. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  21:54  
I agree. My youngest daughter, she has one son just started kindergarten this year. They've been trying to go there. And it just isn't coming. But it's nice that there are cousins, and there are right friends. And she sent him to childcare, and went to work. But it wasn't just because she was going to work. But because with him being an only he needed that experience of having to do all of that, but in a childcare, and now he's in kindergarten and enjoying life. Yeah. Yeah. What were some of the things, then I know that you were so deliberate in the things that you taught your kids and I love reading about that. I just started last night on the four lessons from my three sons dt. There it is, but but I know how deliberate you were, and you had this parenting plan. In fact, I just did a show a little bit ago about how important it is to have a parenting plan. What are our values? How are we going to manage this? I feel like it's kind of like a constitution of the family. Because it's a living document, you may need to make amendments. Oh, you didn't think about that? Right? It'll always come up with something that's like, never expected that. But being very deliberate in the things, what are the things that I want to teach my kids? What are the values that are really important? So knowing how deliberate you were? Did you have specific things that you did to help teach them about gratitude? Yes,

Jeff Nelligan  23:25  
as I said, at the beginning, gratitude is just the foundation. If you wake up in the morning, and you're not grateful for having your blood going through your veins, and there's something wrong, and that's got to be imparted to a kid early on. We take too much for granted in this society, from the fact that we can turn on a faucet and water comes out of it to switching on a light. Yeah. Forget air conditioning and refrigeration and cars and airplanes. And free universal schooling. We just take it all for granted. In a former job, I worked at the State Department. So I've been in about 80 countries. And I would say half those countries. You were talking about nations that 70% of their diet was bred. You were talking about nations that had no sewage systems, major cities, Lagos, Nigeria, or cities that to get aspirin was a day long journey to find a pharmacy to have get aspirin. So we take everything for granted. So gratitude begins immediately when you wake up. It's also the idea that you can build gratitude because you teach your kids hey, your dad's humping into a job every day and sometimes it's not easy. And you have everything you want and most of what you need. So realize that this just just doesn't come for free. Right? And they got it early on. As I say you get to a kid early. He or she will remember it forever. If you wait, you know the ages have about 12 to 14, average. 13 is that place where if you haven't made those massive interventions and impressions on your child, it's doubtful that they're going to be able to take them unless it's shock treatment. So that gratitude factor pounded home early and often. And the kids will respond. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  25:19  
absolutely. And one of the things you brought up that I thought was so important is often when we're talking about gratitude, we're talking about being grateful for people, something that someone did for us, which is so so, so important. So important. But you also brought up another aspect that I think we don't really process as often as we should, that we flip a switch and a light comes on. Right? It wasn't long ago, that would have been considered magic. And you'd be burned at the stake.

Jeff Nelligan  25:48  
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you're talking about virtually 6,000,000,005, and a half billion people in this in this world don't have any electricity, they don't have any running water. And a good portion of them go to bed hungry only nights of the year, right. As I said, the, the Western world doesn't understand that. And my kids understood it real early on, and also till you make an example of the real world in which you live. I hear high school kids today talk about the stress, and they're so tired. And school is tough, and their parents don't understand them. And their internet's too slow. And I think I've always told my sons this, their grandfather, my father, at age 15, was working in a vanadium mined a mile below the surface of the Earth in the Sierra mountains, and an 18 participated in the evasion of Okinawa. So an 18 year old kid telling me that they're stressed, or they're tired, or their internet is too slow, or their parents don't understand them, is an absolute fantasy world. So that's what I mean about the gratitude. My dad's dad was down in that mind so that my kids to go to West Point, the Naval Academy, right, if they're not grateful for that, they're zombies. But they aren't.

DJ Stutz  27:15  
Oh, for sure. I know, with my dad. So I grew up in Los Angeles. My dad was a professor at UCLA, and electro chemical engineering. So his total nerd. So funny, I remember just a little sideline, he got his doctorate at Cal State Berkeley, and this was back in the early 60s. And I was in kindergarten, and I would come home and my mom would be crying and upset because there were a lot of the race riots going on back then. And a lot of things that my mom would be all worried about my dad, and I can remember asking my dad, are you safe? And he said, Oh, I'm an engineering student. They don't care about us. Nerds. Every summer, every summer, he took my brothers and some of their friends, other adult dads and stuff. And they would hike a 50 mile segment of the John Muir Trail. Sure, yeah. Yeah. And that was specifically to teach them I mean, survival skills. Yes. And camaraderie and all of those things, but how to be dead tired and have to get up the next morning and build a fire and make something to eat. Have enough calories to get you through the rigors of another exhausting day. Yeah, yeah.

Jeff Nelligan  28:28  
Yeah. So and that's what I'm saying. Kids today, many kids and some parents labor under this misapprehension that things are tough. And they have no idea what tough is. Yeah. Because they take everything for granted. Yeah, everything.

DJ Stutz  28:44  
Yeah. Well, I think of so we lived in Las Vegas for 20 years. Wow. Yeah. And we had a pool in our backyard. And even a Jacuzzi for part of it. Yes, in Las Vegas. And we had air conditioning, and it would be 100. And literally 117. Outside, and we would have the air set at 8082. Which sounds high, but when it's 117 outside, that is very refreshing. And I would often think of how on earth did the early settlers, right? Yes, Vegas, even sir. Five? How did they move? Right? If it got over 105 My body it finally acted. I would just fine until 105. I just kind of shut down. Yeah. And I'm in the pool. And so you wonder we have so many things and when we think back on that's one of the things I think it's so great. You've got these wonderful stories about your grandfather in the minds and working so hard. And you have that knowledge and experience and, and stories to pass down to your kids. I think that's such a great thing to have as you Look at the stories of like, my grandfather was literally a lumberjack in the northwest and my other grandfather on the Benyon side, he was raised on a farm and ranch in northern Utah, and just to hear their stories, to sit and listen to them, tell their stories and pass those on to my kids. And it helps them not only get a feel for who they are, and how they fit in the world, but it also helps them understand, like, we have so much

Jeff Nelligan  30:28  
going on, maybe it's something that DJ parents can take away from this conversation is, you got to explain the history of the family, you've got to remember what your father or your grandfather or grandmother did, or mother and say, Look, kids, let me tell you what it was like in 1960 or in 1940. And try and get through to the kid, well, you better get through to the kid, if you're trying to get through to a kid, you're doomed to get through to the kid that their life is so good. And maybe that somehow penetrates the kids skin and makes them feel grateful. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  31:10  
I agree very, very much. And so I think that encouraging them and you do something every year that kind of ties into this, encouraging them to have their own story that they're now going to be passing on. And so then yes, gathering more and more and more information so that further generations aren't losing the stories of how they first came to the United States. I've got a great story on the bend inside, you know, all these things, you're passing that down to the kids, talk to us just for a minute of what you do every year for your boys. Well,

Jeff Nelligan  31:45  
every year I put together and this is gonna sound so Wayback Machine and maudlin. I put together a binder that is full of pictures and news clips and paperwork from their whole year previous. And it's called the year and review. I started this when they were really young, in junior high school. And I would include pictures of athletic events and report cards and papers, they'd written events we've been to. And every year, I put this in a binder for them. And it Christmas, Christmas Day they received them. And indeed, in the book you're looking at, there's actually a picture of the three of them reading your binders, and Christmas not too long ago. And when they started, I think the youngest was six, and now the youngest is 24. So but they still find them gripping as the picture shows. But it was a way of looking at the year and saying, Hey, this is what I did. This is what I saw. This is what I wasn't successful at. And not in the cloud, but right in their hands. And so each year they've received this and of course, there's a whole collection of them, I keep them at my house, because they're all over the globe. And it was just a great memory that they could hold in their hands about hey, this is what happened this year. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  33:05  
I love that. And then they can look back and go, yeah, they love having those. And once they get more settled down or they have their families, they'll be able to take those into their own homes and share with their kids. Oh, you're six years old. Let me show you my six year old right you and see what we did. Right. So funny. My oldest daughter. She's got three out of her. I have three grandchildren out of high school. I was so wrong. But you're

Jeff Nelligan  33:32  
too young for that. I agree.

DJ Stutz  33:36  
So her two youngest, though she has a 12 and a 13 year old are her two youngest. And they came across somehow an old diary, high school diary of their moms. And I'm thinking yeah. But kickout it Oh, so and so's really cute. And someone talked to me today. And I hate this teacher. And I love this teacher. And they saw that their mom was going through a lot of the same things that they were going through and having the same emotions. And I think it made it easier for them to come talk to her. Yeah, because they saw that. And that's really turned out to be a great thing. And so I was really excited when I heard about your urine reviews. And I just would love to promote that with any of our families to do that and keep those things and I like having them in a year binder to

Jeff Nelligan  34:31  
also to DJ something you can hold in your hand. And that is not in the web. And people say well, All my stuff's in the cloud. I said, that's great. When did you look at the cloud? Yeah, my stuff's right here. And you can turn the page and read it. Right? You know, the original thing for

DJ Stutz  34:47  
bid what should happen if everything gets hacked and we have an EMP or whatever, it's all gone. It's stuff that we're going to have so the books that are important to you okay, now I'm getting a little blue We'll but important to you, you need to have them not on your candle. But here just in case such things happen. It's possible is it? Is it absolutely going to happen? I don't know. But yeah, chance. Yeah, there's a chance,

Jeff Nelligan  35:15  
of course. And also, if you want to see something, it's right there in your living room. It's not something you have to kit 75 keystrokes to get to. It's a living a parent, solid, concrete, document, and document. Absolutely. It's, as I said, it's old school. And it's a great thing crazy to be an old man sitting there in the before Christmas, at the kitchen table with scissors and glue, and scotch tape. Oh, my gosh, and just piles of stuff, you know, thinking? I can't be these kids are 23 years old, what's going on here? That's crazy.

DJ Stutz  35:56  
But they're gonna continue amazing things and accomplishing great things and things that you're going to want to make sure your grandkids will know about their dads. And so you are actually already I don't think Do you have any grandkids yet? No, no. Yep. But eventually, I mean, so you're doing things right now that are building relationships with those future grandkids? Oh, yeah. So today, you're raising grandkids that aren't even here yet? Right.

Jeff Nelligan  36:28  
I mean, they'll be able to see the binders from their dad's from 20 years ago. 25 years ago, right. Amazing

DJ Stutz  36:35  
stuff. Amazing stuff. Well, gosh, as last time we talked, we could talk forever. But So Jeff, why don't you tell people about where they can find you and get your books? That?

Jeff Nelligan  36:48  
Yes, Jeff Nelligan The website is www dot Nelligan books.com. My Facebook page is Jeff Nelligan books, my Twitter account is at resilient sons, Instagram is Nelligan underscore books. And of course, I'm on LinkedIn, just Jeff Nelligan. And all these platforms have posts about the books that DJ is happily and very graciously showed to you. And the most recent, obviously, being four lessons from my three sons, the second edition,

DJ Stutz  37:23  
I love it, I love it. And amazing, I know everyone's gonna be so surprised. But all that information is going to be down in the show notes. So I love it. I love it, you download the show notes, they're one click away. And it doesn't matter what format you're listening on, whether you're doing a podcast format, we're on pretty much all of them. If they were not on one, it's very minor. And we're also on YouTube. And we are also on rumble. And so you can find it just DJ Stutz. If you do that, you're gonna find me. And you'll get all of that. So just one click away. So just before we go, I always ask my parents, same question. And we know that there are no perfect parents, hence the name of the podcast. But right, would you describe maybe just a successful parent? Great question.

Jeff Nelligan  38:09  
And you know what, it ties up virtually everything we've talked about over the last 30 minutes DJ, the perfect parent, however perfect they are, is the one that teaches his kid, her kid to build relationships with the world. It's not the parent that seeking to build a relationship with a child. One who seeks to build those relationships with the world, the people, the events, the places the things all around them, because that's where that kid is going to end up. And the kid, he or she must be able to navigate that world with confidence, right, and good conduct and high character. You know,

DJ Stutz  38:53  
I love that. And that's an original answer. In what 120 Something episodes.

Jeff Nelligan  39:00  
Oh, my gosh.

DJ Stutz  39:01  
That's an original answer. I love it. Thank you so much for that. So thank you once again for being a part of this and being part of our history at Imperfect Heroes. And I just want to remind everyone that you can always find us on YouTube, and Rumble if you want to look at our beautiful faces. And the videos tend to be a little bit longer than the podcasts. So it's just how editing works out. And so until next time, let's find joy in parenting. Bye, guys.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai