Episode 145: What Do We Need to Flourish Through Change with Joris Gjata

Children  0:00  
We think you should know that Imperfect Heroes Podcast is a production of Little Hearts Academy USA.

DJ Stutz  0:09  
You're listening to Imperfect Heroes, Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world. And I'm your host, DJ Stutz.

Welcome heroes and heroines, and thank you for choosing to spend the next few minutes here at Imperfect Heroes. And before we get started on such a great topic, I wanted to invite you to become part of our Imperfect Heroes Insiders. What is that you say? Well, let me tell you, this is an opportunity for you to get some extra content from some of our guests. You're going to get book reviews, you're going to get extra ideas and activities for you to do for your kids that you're not going to get anywhere else. How do you get in on this, you just go to our website, it's www.LittleHeartsAcademyUSA. You just click on Imperfect Heroes Insiders. And it's that easy. So it's free, you just register. And you're going to be able to get weekly, extra content, and extra things that are fun to do. It's so much fun. And we look forward to seeing you there. 

Now, let's get going with our topic. And with our guest for today. Our guest today is Joris Gjataa. And I hope I said that right, but I don't think I got it exactly right. But she comes to us from Boston. This month, we are talking about helping our children deal with changes. It can be hard on our kids, whether we're moving, whether there's a new baby, whether we're having changes within the family, Joris knows all about big changes and going through those. And so she's going to talk to us a little bit. Joris, why don't you talk to us a little bit about what you do and what you have going on.

Joris Gjata  2:15  
Hi DJ and all the imperfect heroes and heroines listening, I'm very happy to be with you. Thank you for the invitation to join you in supporting parents in their journey. And all individuals who take care of kids and are around them, they are raising the future generation. Again, I'm Joris Gjata. I'm right now talking to all of you from Newton, Massachusetts, in the greater Boston area. And part of what I do is supporting individuals who are tired and alone and overwhelmed, to become more rested, and to have more clarity, confidence. And at the end feel like they belong wherever they are in their life journey, especially during moments of changes and transitions. And I love to work with parents and those who take care of children, as I mentioned, because they have in hand the future of this world and the next generation. And they are the model of leadership and ways of being in the world or the younger ones. And during moments of change and transition. It is tough. It is tough for the adults. And it is tough for the young ones. But the adults being the leaders in the family kind of need to model how to leave in those moments of transition and change. And so I want to support them to do that best as fast as they can for the younger ones. And transition is hard, but at the same time offers a great opportunity to really move forward and gain clarity and confidence. I offer myself as a partner in that journey and also nature dark because I believe that they do have all the qualities inside to reach out and communicate and teach the younger ones. I am a certified parenting coach. I'm a certified forest therapy guide. I'm certified in a lot of art therapy. This work as a parenting coach and as a transitions coach is very close to my heart because I get to use all my skills to support people do their inner research. That's the foundation for yeah for enjoying this life with Kinect.

DJ Stutz  4:34  
And I think too when we talk about it when I was teaching I was dealing with was not dealing with enjoying dealing with little guys who were coming to my classroom from all over the world. I had kids who were coming from Mexico from South America, but I also had kids that were coming from Egypt and I had kids from France and from England and from Russia. shar, I had kids from Ukraine all over. And so here they are just little five year old, sometimes six. And they were transitioning to not only just a new place to live, but a new style of living. And I had parents who came and our system of education was very different. So for them to understand how involved Am I allowed to be? What are the expectations there? In some countries? You don't get involved? The teacher is the ultimate authority, I guess. Were Yeah. And for me, it was like, yeah, come on, be in the class. And they're like, Oh, am I allowed? Yeah. And then making friends was a whole new things. When I had kids that were coming in, who didn't speak the language, or they looked sometimes different. So most of the time I was teaching, most of my class was Hispanic. And so if I got a child from Egypt, or from sometimes France or whatever it would, they, they might look a little different than the other kids. And they're speaking a very different language than some of the other kids making friends could be very difficult for them at first. And then after the pandemic, when they came in. I had one little guy from Chile, that hadn't been out of his apartment in two years. And then he came. So social skills, the ability to join, play, all of that everything was different to him. And so I know that you have an experience of coming and having those. So your personal experience is so valuable. How can I help our parents with some of those things?

Joris Gjata  6:46  
Yeah. So let me tell a little bit my story and how I came to New the Massachusetts where I am. It's kind of a story of like, the impossible being possible. I am from Albania, originally a country. It's very small country in the Mediterranean, bordering Greece, Macedonia and Kosovo, which has Albanians, Montenegro, and on the other side of the Italian boots, you know, the heel. So that's where it was being a is very small country, but with bread culture, and my story of journeys of transition really started when I lost my father, before going to high school to brain cancer, losing the father is a big, a big thing. So at that moment, I felt like I had to do everything by myself. And education was the way where I would find refuge and freedom and my own power to move forward. So I went into high school, it was a boarding school with I was in a dormitory, they were all girls, and I would go at home on the weekends, and we moved cities from where I was born quartzite, the southeast of Albania, we moved to the capital of Tirana. And at the same time, I also was in the dormitory with a lot of girls from all over Albania. But my focus was education. Yeah. And then I was one of the top three, graduated top three in my class. Wow. And then from there, it was the Turkish high schools. And then I applied for a scholarship and got a scholarship to study in Turkey and did my undergrad in Turkey. And for me, the another shift to transition. There was of course, another country, I had to be by myself, I had no family around, like and no connections to it. There are some similarities. I at least had learned the language during high school, but I was totally on my own. So the first two years were really difficult. And there is the separation going far away from family, just calling on the weekends and trying to maintain that connection while being separate and being far away was tough. And I graduated from college in Turkey in Ankara. I was top of my class and International Relations again. And then from there, I went for my master's to London, in international political economy. I got a scholarship again. And before going there, I met my husband, husband, which was challenging because then I didn't know what was going to happen. And then I had to go away. They are Turkish, but they were studying in the US. So for a year we were just typing. I don't know if you've heard of Skype. So what it was a long

DJ Stutz  9:37  
list. I do remember the Skype years Yeah.

Joris Gjata  9:40  
And then they weren't in the US. And then I finished my master's again. I was I graduated top in the top 5% of my class. It was a great experience, but also very challenging one for me, because having moved to all these places and different cultures, I was focused on education, right that was my play. But I wasn't at the same time acknowledging all the things that I had to leave behind and lose and separate from. And I was just going, go, go, go, go go. And I didn't have the resources and I developed strategies. And yeah, I was strong. And I had that narrative from my family that, yeah, I was strong, but everything catches up with you. So that was a year that was very short to adapt to a different culture in London, for the first time I was speaking, and I studying English in an English speaking country, right? Like I write everything in English, but outside kind of the native speakers.

DJ Stutz  10:39  
That's a very different experience. Yes,

Joris Gjata  10:43  
yes, yes, yes. And also very short periods of time, it was one year, there was a lot going on a lot of adaptation that had to happen in a very short time. And so that had its own accumulation on it, but I did it. And it was good. And it was successful. And I had the energy of the new partnership that I was starting with my with my husband, so kind of part of it is that support. Yeah, having someone to envision visit your life together, someone who understands also what it means to move to different cultures and transitions. So so that was good. But then I came to the US after my education to do my PhD. And my husband also was doing more education, but we had to leave together now in one apartment. So a lot of new learnings. And also I got into a family that has a different culture, I kind of religiously I was from a Greek Orthodox family, and my husband, technically even though the family is not religious, but the permaculture, that's Muslim majority. And so we had a moment and in that, together, when we're thinking of, Oh, what about kids and family? So we had a moment where we sat down and thought more carefully, we were both researchers. So we had we wrote a book chapter together on multicultural families, before having the kid and the idea that in a way, there's an expression in Turkey that you just make the underwear of the baby before they're born. And it's seen as useless. Like, why would you do that? And they're not here yet. But it was very important for us to take the time and space to reflect on how what did it mean for us to be together in a family, bringing this different cultural, right, I got some different experiences and forming a unity, right kind of forming that we that that is crucial in, in being a fan such

DJ Stutz  12:38  
an important point to make those decisions before the babies come, right. Yes,

Joris Gjata  12:43  
yes, exactly. But culturally, that's not supported, right? It's seen, right? Oh, that's move, go go on and move on. And it just will happen. And from all these transitions, that I got, then the baby like we had the kid. And of course, parenting has its own learning, like one of the biggest learnings, and in a new country, like in the US, like there was a lot, a lot going on. But from all of this, what I have understood that I want to offer to individuals, some parents who are going through changes and transitions is the importance of acknowledging what is lost also, right, what we separated from, because we Yeah, we're strong. And we tend to and in our culture, we're just pushed to just go fast and move to the next thing and to the next into the next and gain energy, find this short term solution that gets you farther, but it catches up with you. And then when it catches up with you. Like it's kind of being smart about that. It's like, do you want to have a whole snow bold, big bowl, find you and get you under? And you'll have some time to write to come back on your feet? Because it's a lot that accumulation is a lot? Or do you want like a small snowball, feeling in moments of change or transition. So it's important to acknowledge that you're going through changes and any change in transition means that you've lost something. So you need to do some grieving, acknowledge that. And at the same time, you're still going to not alone. And you're going to move through it with the helos. Like what strengths and learnings and values that you have, from your past and from your culture, right. So it's important to pause I've been into and I realized I've been always and we're always in this what I call the connection Avenue. But it's to move into that connection Avenue right? We need to have those stops. We'll have the pauses when we refuel ourselves right get gas or recharge ourselves? Because those were allow us to remain in that path of connection. Right? And that pause. And also you turn, the pause is an opportunity to look inside and to see, what is this experience teaching me? What is it telling about me? So you learn about yourself, and only then can you model and translate intentionally for the younger ones that are around you? Well, and

DJ Stutz  15:30  
I think, too, when you come into a new environment, and it may be across the world, or it may be just going to a new community across the state. It doesn't have to be so big, but yet there are still changes that will occur. And so I think it's important to take out and to evaluate what it is, that are the important things that you want to keep with you. But it's also important to look at what are the things that I need to do to become a part of this community, the new community? So what are the things that we need to make sure that we are holding on to, you'd mentioned those values? And then the history what your family history, the stories? And then how do I work that with the little ones that you were talking about?

Joris Gjata  16:28  
Yeah, when you're far away, or sad, separated. Also, the communication, like even the digital communication that's not in person is even more challenging. And it's even more tricky. But at the same time, being the separation also has its own advantages, because you can choose how to use the time and space, when you connect, let's say with a grandparent who is across the ocean somewhere else, or in another state, right? So that you start the connection and the conversation, you model. Again, modeling is the number one way of teaching. It's not words, it's through embodiment. And so you communicate with with your own parents. So that's why it's important to to kind of do the U turn and go back to you and see. So I'm, I'm talking to my mother, and my triggered, do I have tension inside in this conversation? Because of a pattern of communication that's different? And maybe it's not working for me? How is that? And then how am I translating that? What am I doing with that. And that's the number one or for all parents, because you set the tone. When your kid senses that there is tension in here and there you are uncomfortable and something is going on, then they will not be available, relaxed enough to have this connection. So that's number one. Number one, do your turn, you turn and pause and check what what do you have available in this moment of connection? The second part? Yeah, it is need a little bit of planning and work. And it's important to see that as as work because it is hard work on to France, and it's okay, if it doesn't work. So kind of embracing that imperfection is important. I would say frequency is also very important. How many times let's say if you plan to do it once a week, setting aside that time, intentionally to create a focus or like a space that doesn't have other demands, right? It's not that you're looking, and at the same time, you're talking to your parents, and you're kind of supporting your kid to talk to them, but like waiting for them to do that, it won't happen. So it needs that concentration and being very intentional that this is time to connect and nurture this relationship that I have with a loved one grandparent, like an aunt or an uncle, or friends that's very dear to the family. And another way like when those people are not available, because communication and relationship is a two way thing. You can do your part. But at the same time you provide space for the other person to be on their own journey and to have their own patterns. You cannot control others ways of thinking or communicating and you're not responsible for fixing them. So that's important to keep in mind. So in that, in that instance, that maybe that connection is not what you wished for. Just remembering then there are other ways to connect them and feel that belonging and one that's very important for me especially as an immigrant from a different culture is nature, because that's the constant everywhere I go, Yeah, I can see the same moon if I am in Albania. And if I am in London, or if I am in Australia, right? Like the moon is the same. And so kind of highlighting a constant in your life, and also acknowledging that we're all on the same earth. Like, we're still connected through mycelium, fungi, all the root system, the the circulation of nutrients, right, right. So we're part of that and we are nature. So realizing that you have a community as part of nature. And you can kind of reach our core to feel that connection and unity through something that there is in common. And yeah, everything is not the same. But the material basis is the same, right? And, well, isn't

DJ Stutz  20:59  
it kind of cool, though, that things are not the same. So that when you do have a chance to go visit Albania, and to have a different experience, it's kind of cool, or, and there was a song back, and I don't even know if it was a Disney movie, whatever. But there was a song somewhere out there, beneath the same blue sky. And it talked about how I can look up at the moon. And know that when you look up, you see the same moon. Yeah, I have to look up that song. But there are supportive things like that. And another thing when you were mentioning that those calls, I think one thing that you could do is send a text or an email or something ahead of time and saying Johnny is having a spelling test today, or he had a soccer game today, or whenever and you can ask him about, these are some things you can ask the grandchild about, he'll be excited to talk to you about those things.

Joris Gjata  21:52  
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, it's, it's true. And the same way that something that you can do with your own kids, when you go and visit, because sometimes you, you move, like, hopefully, once a year, you can go and visit someone who's far away. And those are kind of new moments in the life in a kid's life, right? It's a moment of change. So you anchor in what is the same as like, what have you been doing? And have you shared till now to that moment, and that is the ground on which you continue to build that relationship, but at the same time, just preparing them for differences, right? So we're going to go to grandma's the bed is different. This is the blanket is maybe some blankets are different. The trees may have no leaves in our back home, they are green and lush. But what is the same? So what is the same? And at the same time? How would you feel when you encounter that difference? Right. So it's great parenting expert and psychotherapist, Dr. Beck is called this emotional vaccination in a way. And it works for adults too. In a way, it's like when you think about what would be the emotions that you will encounter in the future time somewhere else? Yeah, you have removed an element of surprise from that experience. So that when that happens, kind of you're more prepared, right? When you feeling sad or frustrated that something is not the same as it's in your home? You have rehearsed that beforehand. And so the impact of that, it can be kind of less overwhelming for the kids. Right? Yeah. So that's also a practice that I try to do with my own kids, when we go somewhere new, or when we expect some changes to happen in the future. For The Holidays, for example, are they birthday, right? If they have we set expectations for like, okay, what are the top three birthday gifts that you'd like to have? And then they can list them? They don't know which one will be. But we do this thought experiments like what if it's this one? How would you feel so that when that actually happens, we have processed some of that emotional experience, because we both have feelings and emotions, they come at the same time, right? It helps when you can separate them, right? And when you can know that you've still got it. You can feel angry, but anger is not going to overwhelm you. That's right anger with an element of surprise. And for kids developmentally, we learn how to process like, what do you do when you're angry or like you can be overwhelmed or you can just say, Oh, I am angry. And I expected this to happen. Like, so I'm not surprised by it. Yeah. And also with that thought experiment helps us think of possible things to do or ways to be so When I'm angry, what could we do, and they can come up with their own creative alternatives and choices that they own. And that's very important, like to feel that you have the power, and are trusted to just to have some independence in how you deal with situations and build confidence. And also it builds that resilience, being able to go through frustration, and to stay with it, and move past and know that you can do that.

DJ Stutz  25:28  
You bring up a lot of ideas and things in my head rushing around, you know. And so a lot of times when kids come into a new situation, sometimes they are maybe a little shy to reach out and make new friends. Sometimes the systems or the things that they did in the past, in another culture or whatever that worked for them to make friends may not work in the new culture. And I've had that happen with my son, who's now an adult, and doing well has a family of his own. But he, and we didn't even move, they just built a new school that he had to go to. Right. And so he's always been like a favorite of the teachers and gotten along. And he had a funny personality and his teachers always like, you know, how you can make people laugh and stuff. And they built this new school, and he had to go to this new school. And he had a different teacher who did not like that You would help a girl with a coat on or open a door. And she just demeaned him all the time. And so everything that had worked for him before, suddenly did not work for him. And so you can have that, whether it's just a new school, or whether you've moved to a different culture, where things that have worked for you before did not work for you now. What are some strategies then that you might help a child or a family that is trying to connect and become part of a community? But they, they're not

Speaker 1  27:04  
quite sure? How, yeah, yeah. How

DJ Stutz  27:07  
did they make that transition work?

Joris Gjata  27:09  
Yeah, it is a it is a tough one. Because it is a, it is a process. So that's one of the most challenging parts of being a human is being okay with the passing of time. And kind of partnering with time in things to merge. Definitely, there are strategies to support that process to support the kid in the process. For me, that would be the focus, the focus is to support and be by the kids side as they go through a hard time. Yeah, with the message being that it is not about you, it is not your fault. There is nothing wrong with you. Because yeah, adults are also learning how to take responsibility for their own feelings, and how to communicate in a way that's supportive of someone's else way of being, and uniqueness, right. And we all have our own uniqueness. And it's tough to provide to have time and space for the interesting joke that you're not used to. Right, without blaming indirectly, the kid. So that would be kind of my focus. For parents it is, especially in those moments that they need to be the greatest supporter for their kids. And, again, for especially for parents who are far away from the kids like this is for like middle schoolers who are close if the kid comes to your home, but when your kid goes to university, right to college, and it's far away, and as a parent, like there's not a lot you can do. And even if you did something, you're in a different culture. So it's like the context is very different. Your learnings are very different. The main power that you have is trust that they are able to go through it goes through the hardship, it is hard, recognize that that is hard, but to trust that they can go through the hardship, and that it's not their fault,

DJ Stutz  29:12  
right? Oh, absolutely. Oh, blaming

Joris Gjata  29:14  
them or without trying to fix it for them, just being by their side, reminding them that they will always love them, they do not judge them, they will always love them, they will always be there, they will always support them, and they cheer them for the way they are and their uniqueness and their beauty and how they come and bloom into the world. Because the fit in will always be an adjustment to something that happens outside. That's the challenging part of my my journey is like how do you belong? And you feel you belong when you're constantly on the move, and when things always change and are in transition? Yeah, that's true. And so for the to belong, it means To believe in their own goodness, and, and respect who they are and their uniqueness their body, right? To be aware of what's going on and embrace that, right? The doing part is not for the kid also, it's like, oh, you need to change this to fit in. But that's not fair. Right? That doesn't make sense. Because what helps is that sense of, I have unconditional love and support, and I'm valued and worth it the way I am. And I am growing and learning, right? But the learning doesn't have to mean that I have to be someone else doesn't have to mean that I am wrong, and I'm fixing something that's wrong with me. And in a world in a world where judgments exist, and all those labels exist, it's tough, but that's the work. That's the work that we need to do more, more consciously, kids will do that. The the, so the adjustment will happen, because that's kids are the ultimate observer, they feel what work, this is not working, I'll try something else. And they will experiment. And they will do that. For us, it's important to let it be, because that's how we learn. We try strategies, make mistakes, and go through it and have our learning. So let that learning happen, which is natural to all kids, because they're trying to survive in a world where they do not have the power, right? The teacher has the power to the parent has the power. So let that happen. But at the same time by giving the message that supporting them, which is giving the message that they know what to do we trust their process. And this is not about something being wrong with that. Right, right. So learning is yeah, they are aware of what's going on, it's important to be aware of oh, this is working for DJ, right. And this is not working for DJ and because they did try this one with this teacher and now he's out. But this thing this has this worked. Okay, this work this time, I'll try to be more times and see. And maybe it won't work. But that process will happen, for sure. But it's important that DJ knows that what she's doing. He's got his learning. That's learning, right? Yeah, feedback, communication in the way experimenting, and that's okay. And she can do that. And trust herself in the process and learn things. But it's not that she's fixing herself, right? Because no, no,

DJ Stutz  32:36  
no, no, she's just watching and observing. And then seeing, you know, oh, this is different. This is the same, but I'm okay with who I am.

Joris Gjata  32:48  
Yeah. Yeah. Right. And also parents, I mean, that's the role of the parents are being by their side with

DJ Stutz  32:56  
unconditional support. Absolutely.

Joris Gjata  32:58  
Like, this has to be sad, right? Like it has to be expressed in different forums, because especially developmentally as kids, our our own way of thinking is just itself played. So that's the automatic thing that happens if something happens, it's like, it's my fault. So we'll learn about that as parents when we learn about that automatic thing. So we work on balancing that voice or offering an alternative as like, this is how I see you. It's not your fault. It's not about blaming, it's about understanding what's going on. And it's a process of learning. So you've

DJ Stutz  33:36  
got it, you've got it. So good. So your tell our listeners or watchers, how can they contact you and get more information on you your book some of the things that you've done? Yes. So

Joris Gjata  33:51  
the main place to go is my website yours jatta.com and jorisgjta.com and they will find a lot about my my practice, they can email me at plenty within@gmail.com Because that's my practices name planted within partners in below love that name. Yeah. And also on my website, they can they can just sign up or getting more news about future groups that I plan to have or events, and blog posts. I'm writing a lot of postings on different topics about individuals going through changes in transition and how it impacts your relationships. And yeah, can follow me on Instagram and planted within again, and yeah, personally also Yours Yours Giada. That's it. You just

DJ Stutz  34:44  
absolutely Wow, and definitely worth following on Instagram, so plenty within and I just love the thought of that that you have what it takes within you. You just need to develop it and recognize it, find it and then you Sit. Right. I love that. I love that. So yours. Thank you so much for being here and being a part of it. You know everybody if you like what you heard today, be sure to follow us and to leave a comment, leave a rating. I love hearing from my people. And if you have any questions, be sure and leave a question. You can leave it on our Facebook page, Imperfect Heroes podcast, you can leave it on our Instagram again, Imperfect Heroes. And you can always watch what we are doing on YouTube and rumble and we love hearing from you. So everyone, until next week, let's find joy in parenting. See you later guys.

Joris Gjata  35:48  
Bye everyone. Thank you, DJ

Transcribed by https://otter.ai