Episode 164: Teaching Children Empathy and Perspective-Taking in Early Childhood with Courtney Hart

DJ Stutz  0:00  
Welcome everybody, all my heroes and heroines looking to be better parents and to give their children the best experience that they can. Before we get started, we're continuing this month with our theme on kindness, and I have a great guest, Courtney Hart, whom we're going to be talking with in just a second. But before we get going, I just wanted to remind everyone Roman is Bigger, you can get it on Amazon, and Barnes and Nobles, and even Walmart has it on their website. But it's a fun book. I've had a lot of fun doing it. We're just getting ready to launch. I guess the next book, it's the Roman is a Bigger Brother, and your definitely going to want the first in the series. As we continue on with the adventures of our friend Roman, we talk about emotions and vocabulary and being brave and doing the right thing. And in fact, speaking of that, part of that was Roman has an experience where he is not only brave, but he also shows kindness in his bravery, and that's what we're talking about today. I've got my good friend here, Courtney Hart, and Courtney, let's just talk for a little bit about your life and your family, and we'll go from there. Sure. So

Courtney Hart  1:14  
I am a single mom of three boys, and my oldest just became a father himself, so that makes me a grandma. 

DJ Stutz  1:21  
Congratulations.

Courtney Hart  1:22  
Thank you. My middle son, he has autism spectrum disorder, and then my youngest son is moving into high school right away here. So just a couple,

DJ Stutz  1:35  
yeah, well, I'm just telling you now that grandma land is the happiest place on earth. Step aside Disney. I just have loved being a grandma. But as we're talking in I think too, like I have a child who is neuro diverse, and you do too, and how sometimes teaching them to be kind, giving them that experience, can be a little more difficult because they process things so differently. But we also want to teach our children to be understanding when someone is different and processes things in a different way. One of the things that I did when I was teaching kindergarten and raising my own kids is we always talk about, well, you need to be kind. That is not kind, whatever kind. But how often do we really take the time to define for our kiddos What kindness actually means? Because a lot of times I'll hear be nice, well, what does that mean? So when we start talking to them very early on, they can start getting a lot of these basic concepts, I think, at even two and three. And so what are some of the things then that you've done and you suggest in helping bring that kindness  piece into our kids typical I have air quotes here, if you're not watching and neuro divergent, 

Courtney Hart  2:59  
yeah, that's great question. But I love how you were talking about that. Because one of the things that came to mind right away is Brene Brown, she always says clear is kind. I love that you were talking about right there, right? Like we need to really break it down. And I think it really comes to that clarity piece. Because even someone really little, right, two year, three year old, instead of stop or don't do that, it's really explaining what it is we want them to stop or what we want them or not do, right? Yeah, instead of don't hit, it's we keep our hands to ourselves. Or, you know, just those little wording things make the biggest difference. And especially with my middle son, I've had that where I'll say something. And now that he's older, he can be like mom. This is what that means to me, is that what you know like he has that ability to explain that, no, I don't think I'm understanding this clearly, but we have to keep that in mind with our little ones, especially that sometimes what we think we're saying isn't what they're understanding. So it's really about breaking it down to those really clear, simple examples of what we're expecting of our kiddos to have th at kind of peace,

DJ Stutz  4:08  
right? And I think too, when we can start teaching them to look at maybe the results of what they've done. And so it's more like, oh, look, she's hurt, or he's crying. Why do you think he's crying? Kind of a thing. Of course, we want to attend any injured and damaged children first, right and and, in fact, what I would often do is completely ignore the aggressive child. And whether that's verbal, whether that is physical, whatever that is, ignore them and give all of the attention to, I hate to say, victim. It's such an overly used word, I hate that word. But you know, the focus of such behaviors and help them and then give the. Offending child the opportunity to help. IE, we had a thing called the magic wet paper towel. A wet paper towel has magical properties, just letting all you parents in on that, even like they'll you, you won't see, there's no cut, there's but, you know, the world's come apart, right? And so you just get a wet paper towel and put it on there, and at least they are feeling cared for. They'll Calm down. It's an amazing thing. But when you can have the offender go get that wet paper towel. Oh, we have to help them hurry. Can you go get the paper towel and get it wet and all of this, and it'll come sopping wet depending on the age of the child, right? But that's okay, and we put it on whatever. That's one thing you can do to help them understand that there are consequences. Oh, I heard them. Then afterwards, you can say, did you want them to feel per or was that your goal? Like, what was your goal and helping them understand. How else could we have managed that goal? I just wanted my truck. Ah, okay, let's work on doing that a different way, right? Yeah,

Courtney Hart  6:12  
I have a good example of where kiddos behaviors, they're trying to communicate something, they're trying to get to something, and sometimes the way that they communicated isn't in that acceptable way. So, for example, oldest he would get very angry at his younger brother, and he decided, I think he was about four or five at the time, and he decided that his way to show his brother he was angry would be to scratch him. Ah, obviously that's not something we can encourage. And so it was having those conversations like, well, how are you feeling? How do you think that makes him feel? You're making him cry, and all of that. And so we ended up, we got him a little with a little ship, and on the top it had four balls, and he had to hammer the balls in. So whenever scratch his brother, he would go to his ship and he'd hammer the balls in. And it was like, Okay, now, you know, he's communicating how he's feeling in a way that isn't going to hurt his brother anymore, and it was his way of being kind. He would take his anger to his little angry ship, we would call it, but taking it away from his brother where it w as going to hurt him, and using his ship instead. So 

DJ Stutz  7:16  
and I'd love that you said that that was his way of being kind. And I think when you bring that to their attention and say that was a kind response that was really kind, when you did X, Y or Z, and you really lay it out for the kids, then they start understanding better. Oh, this is kind. It's not just smiling or saying yes, ma'am, which is all a part of it, but that's not the whole picture of kindness and thinking about someone else's feelings and that, and that's a really hard thing. It's a hard thing for us adults to do. In many cases, I was just mad. Well, okay, grown up. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think too, when we start teaching them these skills very early, the earlier that we can do it, and even using language, even when they don't have language yet, but with using those words and those terms, they'll come  to an understanding. 

Courtney Hart  8:20  
Oh, that's exactly it. And it's one of those things, anything parenting related. Really, the younger we start, the better. It doesn't mean we can't start later, but it's easier when we start when they're younger, 

DJ Stutz  8:31  
True, true, and that's why we focus on these younger kids with my coaching and the workshops I do and the podcast is we're just trying to get that message to parents that the earlier you can start, and let me give you some tools to help you with those early starts. It's really going to be so much easier as they get older. And we're talking about, when are we talking about bravery? In October, I had to look because kindness and bravery can often come very close together. It can be quite connected when you're doing that and so teaching them that it's okay to stand up and say that's not nice, and then how to manage it in a kinder way, so you don't need to get mad and punch some kid in the face because you're protecting another child, right? My brothers used to think that they could go run to the rescue of any child that's being injured, and then they didn't get in trouble for fighting. Well, I was just protecting so and so, but giving them maybe some different skills. I'm saying, let's leave this and go somewhere else, and we'll be friends. And it's hard sometimes, and I have seen this happen even in the preschool level, where a child is sectioned out and everyone kind of picks on that kid. I remember, I was the administrator of this child development center at the college, and. And there was one little boy, and he was pistol. I'm not saying he wasn't right, and everybody would get so mad at him because, like, he's one who would knock down everybody's toys or take it or yell, or he'd hit. He would hit. But I remember one time I was in the observation room, and I was taking some notes on an evaluation, and it was so funny because I heard one of the kids come up crying to his teacher that this little boy, Joey,

Courtney Hart  10:28  
Joey,

DJ Stutz  10:31  
Joey isn't even here today, right? They're so used to blaming this one kid for everything that went on in the classroom, that he got blamed for hitting even when he wasn't there. But I think giving them the courage to reach out to a child that is being segregated and not included or noticing that's something that we can start working on early on. It's a big skill. It's not one that they're going to accomplish until they're older, but we can still start putting the seeds in the soil. Yeah. And so do you have any thoughts on some of the things we can do to encourage our kids with that?

Courtney Hart  11:13  
I think I love that, putting bravery with kindness together, because sometimes it's a kiddo thinking about something, but it feels scary to do it right? So that it's okay to do scary things. It could be even, you know, depending on the kid what that scary thing is, looks different. But if we go and we see that the kid maybe is hesitating, and encourage it a little bit like, if, in that preschool setting, like you're talking about, if you see the one kid who's kind of standing back and watching a little bit more than being in there or being like, he's being mean, they're kind of watching, maybe doing that, encouraging like, Hey, do you think he wants to play right now? Or do you think he maybe wants a friend right now? And just giving those little kind of hints and seeing if the kiddo takes it. Because, I mean, in the end, we're not going to force this kid to play with the other kid, so right, but taking those little like, Hey, do you think baby? Would you like to do this? Would you like to try inviting Joey to build towers and then knock them down together? Maybe that could be fun, you know, just kind of giving them the suggestions of things to do that, you know, are something that kiddo who's watching likes and something that Joey's obviously anyway, right? Like trying to build those directions, right? To help with that,

DJ Stutz  12:26  
I think that does kind of help. And I think too The screens are in front of our kids far too much, but there are times when we can maybe take advantage of that time. So maybe they're watching a cartoon or a movie or playing one of their games or whatever, and hitting pause and saying, What do you think about what just happened here? And you know, do you think he was being kind? Is there a different way that they could have handled that, or did he handle it really well? Or when you see something, then pause and say, oh, did you see what he just did? He was so kind, but what did he do that made him kind and get that conversation going. It's a way to at least you're talking together. You're integrating what they're interested in with their life. And I don't care if it's bluey kiddo or whatever else they're watching, but incorporating that into their learning experience.

Courtney Hart  13:27  
Yeah, I love that. And we do that a lot with books too, right, where it's absolutely and you stop every page and you ask, yeah, exactly, exactly, that's exactly, right? Yeah? And even just if it's a show that you you've seen before. Because, I mean, I don't know if your kiddos are anything like mine. They may have favorites that they repeat over and over again. It's pausing it. And what do you think is going to happen next? And maybe they already know you're like, a different way this could happen. What if we made up our own ending? So if it is something where the kids being kind. You're just talking about it, but it may be something in the in the show is not so kind, and it's like, how could they have responded different? How could we do this different? And really, just, yeah, I love that, building on conversations around what the kiddos are loving, what they like, right? 

DJ Stutz  14:14  
Yeah, Iwas just actually visiting my son and his family, and they are crazy insane about the last avatar air Bender thing, I don't know. And so there's a live action one, and they're like, Oh, this isn't right. This isn't right or whatever. But I think they've seen each one of the cartoon versions like, five times, and they knew all the little nuances of it. But what I loved watching them was they were talking about how, well this seemed unkind, or this was interesting, seeing this friendship develop. And why do you think that they were enemies? But how do you think that friendship then developed because they hated each other, and you're having those conversations and using that. Yeah, and it is for you saying stuff you've seen 100 times or five times or whatever, but you've seen it before, and you know what's coming. You can also use that to your benefit as well as you're working through these things. Yeah, exactly,

Courtney Hart  15:14  
exactly. You can do it with stuff. And you know what the stuff that you haven't seen before or haven't read before, then you can both make predictions. The adult like, I think this is going to happen, and then the kiddo can do it, or let the kiddo go first. You know, between my three boys, I have one that would never go first. They'd be like, I'm not quite certain what you mean by that question. But if I gave an example, and I'd be like, okay, but you can't they. You can't guess the same thing as me. We have to guess different because we don't know what's going to happen. Then it's just encouraging that as well, and then it's fun to stop. If someone was right, then it's like the biggest amazing thing in the world. Look, I had a good prediction, and it's exciting and builds on that. We're teaching kindness, but we're also having fun. We're building connection, and we're doing all these things all at once,

DJ Stutz  15:55  
Great. And really that's when they learn the most. Is when they're interested, of course. And so a boring teacher can ruin it. So my son that struggled with his things, and so he was in, like, developmental math in sixth grade, and was just struggling, and his teacher hated him. I mean, it was very clear. And so I went, happened to be the PTA president, knew everybody. So I went to the principal and talked and she said, Who is it? It was his teacher. And I told her, she's like, Oh yeah, I've been trying to get rid of him. He's tenured, but I get it to the only other class, though, that we have an opening in is honors math, and he's in developmental math. And I said, Well, he's gonna fail developmental or he's gonna fail honors. Either way, it's a fail, but at least he won't be with a teacher that hates him. And she said, point taken. So she went and moved him. This kid went from developmental math to the highest grade in the class in honors math because he had a teacher that cared, that showed kindness, rather than a lack of kindness. And what that difference was, how we respond as adults has so much influence on the outcome with our kids and how they manage. And I think that oftentimes, and I don't want to like, Oh, your child isn't kind. It's all your fault. There are a lot of things that come in, but we have, as parents and teachers, a huge influence on the little ones that are in our lives, and they are looking to us to see and so maybe we need to take some time to step back and reevaluate ourselves on how are we when we're driving down the road on the freeway? Hm,

Courtney Hart  17:47  
yes, yes, all those little things right? The way we respond to the thing is the way they're going to right, as much as we want them to just do what we teach them in the moments we're teaching them, it's those moments when we're just being that's the things they're going to pick up on, right? So it's really all about those. Like you said, in the traffic, it's in the grocery store line when people are being slow, it's all those little things, yeah, those are the opportunities for you to really show kindness in action. Yeah?

DJ Stutz  18:15  
Yeah. It was funny. I was at the grocery store, and there was a family in the checkout next to me, and they had a little girl, maybe four. She looked around that age, and a lady in front of them just was taking forever. She was older. Just everything was an ordeal. And finally, you hear the little foible. Oh, come on.  I thought, Oh, she's heard that, but, and I thought it was so funny, though you could see the exasperation in her. And I'm not saying that wasn't an amazing mom. I'm sure that mom is amazing, but it's funny how they do pick up on those terms, those phrases, and how we show our own frustrations and stuff. And it's just funny how kids will pick up on that, and then too being aware as a parent of what is going on with your kiddo. So many times I as a teacher, would have to say, oh, Joey got in trouble because he hit so and so and well, that other kids just hitting him all the time or whatever. And that's like, well, not really. Or I would get a parent, they'll come and say, I don't want Joey. You can see, I always use Joey as my name, but I don't want Joey playing with Jackie. He's a bully. He's this and that. And in my head, I'm thinking, either your child does more hitting than any other kid in school or in class. Or number two, those two are frenemies, and no matter how hard I try to keep them apart, they find their way together, and they love playing with each other. In fact, most of their time is very, very positive, but once in a while, as kids will, you know, and they're learning how to manage through their own process. Problem solving skills. They're learning them, and it's like brothers and sisters. But just, I think always remember that given any circumstance, whatever your child is capable of, x, my child would never and I'm thinking, Oh, okay, you're in denial. Dangerous to say, Yeah, and so maybe really listening, and then listening to your child, and then re establishing your own values and boundaries that you have and trusting that, yeah, my kid can mess up. Yeah, and not. We're not blaming other people all the time for whatever. 

Courtney Hart 20:41 
Oh, exactly.  I think it's a really good example of teaching your child on perspective, taking right, if your kiddo comes home and has this story, it's like, yes, that was your experience. I wonder how the other kiddo experienced this. Like, you know, like, I mean, I'm not going to use the word experience with my, you know, four and five year old, but you know, like, I wonder if Johnny is telling his parents the same story. Like, I wonder what his story looks like, and then having those conversations, not to, you know, making sure you validate your child's feelings, because in that moment, they're feeling 100% valid, but their perspective on the story might be different, or it's only one side of that story. So really using those opportunities to show that, yeah, I hear you, I understand and I recognize that what you're going through and Johnny might be having a different experience, and that's okay, yeah,

DJ Stutz 21:31  
Yeah. And then even talking about, how can we help Johnny to have a different experience in the future? And so that's one of the things so parents I coach are really familiar with this, but I really do promote having a weekly family meeting, especially when the kids are younger. But this can go on into teen hood, do but when they're little, giving them an opportunity, when everything's calm and everyone's happy and now we're having popcorn, or we've got all these fun things that are going on, but we give them a chance to role play, how to be kind in a hard situation, and saying, Oh, these two kids are fighting, or one kid's being really mean to another child. And instead of, oftentimes, instead of just confronting the mean, quote, unquote, mean child. You just go up to the other kid and say, Hey, come, just play with me. Let's go play over here. That's where a lot of bravery comes in, quite honestly, but it also, if they're practicing it, you could do it more than once a week, but I think at least once a week that you're getting together, and it's a good time to go over like, what's happening, what's on the calendar for this week, and what are some of the exciting things? I was so proud. Look at Johnny got an A on his selling test. Or, hey, he got a C, and that's up from the F way to go. Celebrating all of these things really connect the family, but giving them a chance to role play, and during the week you can watch. And what are the some of the situations maybe that we need to practice answering the phone, maybe we need to practice answering the door appropriately, all of those things that we often don't really sit down and really overtly teach

Courtney Hart  23:21  
Yes, yes. I even think of instances where you know the things that you don't even think about, right? Kate, we need to make sure we have a shirt on before we head to the tour. That one happened in my house. I didn't think I had to te ll my kids that.

DJ Stutz  23:39  
I don't know.  What we overtly, really teach them how to shake a hand, how to shake someone's hand so that you are being respectful and showing confidence. And how do we talk to different people? How do we respond? And all of those things are very good to really practice. How are we kind? To really practice that? 

Courtney Hart 24:06. 
Yeah, the family meeting once a week is such a great way to end your week, start your week, middle of the week, whatever you decide, right? But it's such a good thing. And that consistency, I think, when it comes to kindness, consistency is kind. So kiddos know what to expect, and then they look forward to it, and it builds routine. And those are all things that people in general, but especially little kids, thrive with routine and expectations being knowing what's coming next, and so having that set time for a meeting, I love that. It's such a kind thing to do for our kids, setting them up with your expectations. I love it, 

DJ Stutz 24:40
Yeah, well, I even had one family, and I forget, which I think was Wednesday or Thursday one day the week, every week that school had a late start, so they had more time in the morning on that one day. And so that's when they did their family meeting was on that day, because they wanted to keep those routines in and. So you still get up at whatever time, seven or whatever and get ready, but then we just do our family meeting instead of going off to school, and that's what worked for them. So understand that every family is different. 

Courtney Hart  25:12
Yes, that's exactly it. It doesn't matter when, if that's the thing you're looking to fit into your family schedule. It doesn't matter when or where or what it just has to be, what works for you, what works for your family? Yeah, it's so true. Every person is different. Every family is different. What works for one family won't work for three, four other families, and that's okay. It works for you. Go with it, yeah,

DJ Stutz 25:33 
Yeah. And that's why I don't like to have a set thing. Oh, you do A, B and C, and because every family is different, you got to get to know them and then help them in a way that is effective for them. And then let's to, let's talk for just a few minutes about neuro diversity. And when our kids see someone, or maybe there's someone, in their class, that is quite disruptive, not because there are brats, because there are those. But sorry guys, I said it like I called it, but kids who are just trying to manage and they process information differently. And it's been really interesting to me to watch how in some classrooms, those children are totally embraced, and in other classrooms, they're totally ostracized, or even in schools, you know, a school can set the attitude. What are some of the things then that we can encourage our children to do if they see someone who exhibits behavior that you and I as adults can say, oh, there's something going on there, right? And they might be too young to really pick up on that, so how can we encourage them to respond in a way that is appropriate for that child?

Courtney Hart  26:53  
I think it starts with having those conversations from a very young age, just about how everybody's different, right? Right? And having those conversations of our brains all work different. Our bodies all work different. You know, kiddos, I don't know the schools you're at, but here we have a lot of times where it's like, okay, we can't have peanuts, because there's someone with a really severe peanut right? That was a big concern in my house, because my oldest that was the only thing he ate was peanut butter sandwiches. That was his favorite. There was a peanut allergy, and it was but he was really good. I was panicked, because I was like, What am I going to do? But he was good about that, because he understood that this kiddo, that was a big thing for him. If he touched peanuts, he could get really sick, right? So we can have these conversations from a young age of if this kid's acting different, maybe his brain's working different. We don't have to break it down into big, scary details, just right? Very simple. Yeah, exactly. Super simple. And then when you're out, I mean, I don't, I don't know any child who doesn't do that, at least wants that embarrassing, like pointing and hey, look, that kid's doing that, or that person's doing that, lose those opportunities, right?

DJ Stutz  28:03  
Yeah, yeah. And maybe even say, Let's go say hi, or watch for a parent or an adult that's close by, and say, you know, you can get the vibes from an adult, one adult to another, whether that's something that would be good or not, to allow my child to come and say, Hey, hi, do you want to play or whatever? I've seen kids, especially really young kids, when they see someone who maybe is on crutches or in a wheelchair, or you can see some things are going on, and they'll just go right up and say, What happened to you? Right? And my experience has been, most people, not everyone, are happy instead of someone pointing, quiet, Whisper, whisper pointing, but just coming up and asking, they appreciate that. And there's some who don't, but okay, but allowing them to respectfully and maybe in those family meetings practice, how do we talk to someone who is waiting in line and is in a wheelchair or on crutches? And how can we be kind? Is it okay for us to let them go in front of us? Because you can see it's hard for them to stand or whatever, and looking for opportunities, yeah,

Courtney Hart  29:16  
Yeah. Have those, yeah, finding, yeah. I love that, just finding the opportunities in the everyday, right? Just always having that kind of in the forefront of your mind, that finding the opportunities, not having to make them, just seeing them and being aware of them, that's going to be the best way, because kiddos learn the best, right? It's just experiential learning.

DJ Stutz  29:38  
Yeah, for sure, I have one family that as we were talking, and there was just a lot of negativity going on, and they had four kids, and I'm coaching them, and we decided to try one thing, where they went around the table every night at dinner. At least they were eating dinner together. Every child had to say something kind that somebody else did for. Damn that day, and then it would have to be like someone in the family. So Joey did this, and Sammy helped me with my homework, and Ronnie found my shoe. When I couldn't find my shoe, he helped me find my shoe. And they went around, and that became an expectation. And if the kids were like, I can't think of anything, you'd get that, right? I can't think of anything. It's like, well, that's kind of an unkind thing to say. First off, but we'll wait. We're fine. We'll wait. I know you'll think of something. And sometimes they would wait for, you know, two minutes, three minutes, which feels a lot longer when you're just sitting and waiting. And then finally they would come out with something. And once they learned that, oh, wow, I can't, the fastest thing I can do is just come up with something quick and I'm out of here. Yeah, that works. Anyway, they've been working on that for, oh, I'd say, about six months now, and it's coming along. It's coming along nicely. So there are a lot of opportunities. Another thing that I really like is, if you go to a craft store, Michaels, Joanne's, any, I don't know, Hobby Lobby, whatever you've got by you, and you can buy these trees, but they're just stick bare trees, and you can let the kids put leaves on of kind acts. And as they fill the tree with their kind acts. And it could be, you know, it depends what your family's needs are, so maybe it's kind acts that they are doing, that they did, or that someone did for them, or both, you know, whatever is going on. But that's a fun way. That's a visual of all the kindness that's around us.

Courtney Hart  31:40  
Yeah, super fun. I have something kind of similar in my house. So I have in my entryway, I've got the closet doors that are mirrors, and so I got an Expo marker. And every time someone comes over, and then we do it, our family does it, you know, regularly. And then when people come over, it's like, Okay, before you leave, I want you to write down one thing you're grateful for. But I love the idea of that, and having it be like something that happened to you, where someone was kind, or what have you done that was kind? And having that, but yeah, that just was like, Maybe I need to change my gratefulness wall to a kindness wall. I love that. 

DJ Stutz  32:13  
Well, it could be anything. Could be a joy wall. It could be whatever your family's needing work on. I think it can be, and I think even when they're little, helping them notice, like, Oh, you just did. That was so kind. It helped me. Blah, blah, blah. Here I'm gonna write that on this leaf. Let's go put it on the tree. That's yours. You put your name on it. Or maybe each kid can have their own color of leaf, or whatever you're gonna put on there. And we can see this tree just become something beautiful. So when they're little, we're giving them an understanding that, oh, what you just did was so kind. I love you're a kind child, aren't you? So let's go and put that on the tree, and they get excited because they want more. They want more on the tree. So that's a really fun thing, I think too, when our kids are dealing because they're neurodivergent, let's go back there for a second, and they're suffering through on their own because either someone's been unkind or they have perceived because sometimes they misperceive other people's intentions, because they process so differently. And so talk to me about some of the things you did to help your son through that.

Courtney Hart  33:24  
For my experience, it was actually almost reversed. So there was lots of times where someone was unkind and he just didn't notice, didn't pick up on it, yeah, yeah. So it was more like the opposite. Sometimes his brothers would notice, and they'd be like, you know, this happened today, and I really didn't like how kiddo was treated, but he wasn't noticing it. And so sometimes it was almost that opposite, where to have to be like, Okay, if someone does this, is this a kind thing we would have very, you know, break it down. These things are not typically kind behaviors. So if someone is saying these things to you, they're not joking with you. It's more like that they were actually being mean. And you know, having those conversations where it's like, okay, this is mean, and if someone's doing this, we need to talk to a teacher or walk away. O r having those kind of conversations is something that I had to deal with a lot.  

DJ Stutz  34:14  
sure, yeah, yeah. And I think again too, having those family meetings once a week and letting them practice standing up for themselves in a proper way, 

Courtney Hart  34:25  
yeah, in a way that's still kind. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  34:28  
yeah, because we can be kind when other people are not. But that doesn't mean that we're a pushover, and there's a difference. 

Courtney Hart  34:35  
Exactly it. I think that to me, in my mind, that's the difference between being nice and being kind. So when we're nice, we kind of it's like we're almost being a pushover, like we're just making sure everyone else is happy around us. We're kind as being clear and standing up for yourself, and doing so in a way that doesn't hurt anyone else,

DJ Stutz  34:51  
right, right? And standing up for others as well. Yes, yeah, exactly. I love it. So talk to us a minute about how. Our followers can find you.

Courtney Hart  35:01  
So my website is called the scariest hood. So my mission is to make parenthood a little less scary. So yes, which is how I found you good, exactly. So, yeah, everything that I have is on there. I've got courses blog. You can listen to previous podcasts I've been on. You can book me for a podcast. Book me for speaking things. Everything's on the website. So it's really simple, just the scariest toad.com, everything's there.

DJ Stutz  35:28  
We're gonna have all of that information on the show notes. So just scroll down and do a click, and we'll take you right there. And Courtney, you'll be there and happy, and be more than happy to help you out. If you would like some more information or some more ideas on kindness and how to incorporate that into your families. Both Courtney and I would love to have a chance to talk things out with you and to share some of the education and the experiences that we have to help you out, and so please take advantage of that. Thank you so much, Courtney for being a part of this and sharing your story with us and helping us to make the world just a little bit more kind. I always ask my guests the same question at the end of every podcast, and I want to ask you as well, what do you see as a successful parent?

Courtney Hart  36:24
I love this question so much. So to me, it's actually very simple, what a successful parent is? A successful parent is a parent who is doing the best they have with the tools they've got, and they're working to find new tools and, you know, just be a little better. Because I think we're never in anything and like we're never done growing, we're never done learning. And so same thing in parenting. If you're continually growing, you're continually learning and you're continually trying, you're doing a great job, 

DJ Stutz 36:54
Yep, and recognizing that you don't have all the answers. Truly nobody does. And so sometimes a different perspective is great. And so when you're reaching out and reading books, listening to podcasts, maybe getting some coaching, all of those things help us to learn more and to just be that much better. I love your answer. Courtney, thank you so much for being a part of this. And if anyone wants to talk more, I know Courtney and I would either one would love to talk further with you and to answer some questions and maybe ask a few that might help you out as well. So until next week, let's find joy in parenting. Bye, guys.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai