Episode 167:Parenting with Purpose: The Ultimate Guide to Self-Discipline for Boys (and Girls) with author Jeff Nelligan

DJ Stutz  0:00  
Welcome everyone, and thank you for choosing to spend the next few minutes with us here at Imperfect Heroes insights into parenting. And before we get started, I just want to remind everyone that voting ends October 1. So this podcast has actually been nominated as Best Podcast in the category of parenting, family and kids by Women in Podcasting. So that's kind of exciting. I'll have the link in the show notes. You just go there, click on it and vote for us, and we'll see how we do. But it was, it's one of those things. I'm just thrilled to be nominated. So thanks to everyone for all the support that you give the podcast and my coaching and all of that, I really appreciate it. So this month, as you know, September, we are talking about self discipline and how important that is for our kids. How do we develop it in our kids? How do we know when they're on the right track or when they may be very enough? How do we keep track of that and then know what to do? Well, my guest today, I love love, love him, Jeff Nelligan, and he is a dad extraordinaire. He's got a couple of books out. And in fact, Jeff, I didn't tell you this earlier, but one of my grandsons just graduated from high school in Northern California, salutatorian, 4.3 GPA, and off he's going. And I gave him your book, Four Lessons from my Three Sons. And he said, Neina, I'm not a parent yet. And I'm like, Yeah, but you're gonna learn how to be a kid. Learn the lessons from this guy that's teaching. You're not learning it as a parent right now. You're learning it as a kid, and the important decisions that he's going to be making at this point in his life. Wow, what you do now is going to change the importance of self discipline in our kids. And for me, one of the signs of self discipline is when your kids are doing the right thing, when no one knows the difference, no one's watching, and they could get away with it, but they choose to do the right thing, that's a huge piece for me, of self discipline. So why don't you share some of the things you've got? The three boys. They're successful, amazing kids. Let's talk a little bit about that. 

Jeff Nelligan  2:49  

Certainly. Hey, first of all, congratulations on the podcast nomination. That's great news, but it shouldn't come as to any surprise to anybody who listens to you. So that's great. And I also have to say, DJ, it's always good talking to you, because your a mom, you're around kids. 24/7, you have this huge, extended family. You know you are right in the heart of what parenting is all about. And I'm not saying that to say it, it's the truth. I mean, this lived experience is something you're going through all the time. So your wisdom and your voice is a particular interest and importance, probably one reason that's why the podcast nomination, you know, in speaking about self discipline, what we've we've talked about before is, I think, at the heart of it, the heart of self discipline, and what you said about doing the right thing when no one's looking. It's called conscience. That's what a conscience is always doing the right thing when it becomes a reflex. And I think the biggest thing in self discipline, particularly for young kids, who are starting to form into humans, young humans, child, pre teen, Adolescence is just routine, and routine is just the routine of not only the kid having to do certain things at a certain time, but also the parent modeling it. And to give you an example from the book that we discussed, we had in our kitchen a big calendar, and it was two feet by three feet, and on it was the month, and on every day of that month was everything that each kid had to do, as well as the family academic tests, papers due, athletic events, to go to, practices, chores, neighborhood events, family outings, play dates, everything that happened to a kid in each single day was placed on there, written on there by a designated son who would go around and get all the information. But the routine was everyone was prepared, and being prepared means there's no drama, there's no excitement, there's just a steady grind through a day to the end of a week. And that routine builds that self discipline, because  the kid knows exactly what's expected of him or her on any given day, and thus is not surprised and gets into that groove of accomplishment and undertaking and ultimately satisfaction. 

DJ Stutz  5:13  

Yeah, and I think too, it's so important, and especially with our younger kids, as they're first starting to develop, to be able to feel confident in knowing what's coming next. I know what's coming next, and so it's not all this chaos that's around me, which is going to honestly, it kind of scrambles their brains in the way that they understand the world around them. They will find that self discipline in being able to know this is what I'm preparing for.  This is what's coming on. And even kids as young as two and three thrive on routine. Babies, brand new babies thrive on routine that they may not know at seven o'clock is bedtime or whatever, but they do know the routines that moms and dads go into that starts preparing them to go to sleep or to eat or whatever it is. And so we're starting so young with that, and you're so right on. 

Jeff Nelligan  6:12  

Yeah, you know, I like the word you use to, chaos. You know, everyone's been around families where everyone's late for something and someone's forgot something. And, you know, I've even made a joke. There's a section in the book, Four Lessons from my Three Sons in which I talk about how the Nelligans were always five minutes early to everything. An old drill sergeant had pounded that into me when I was at infantry school, and he said, this is at Fort Benning, 100 years ago, folks.  And he said, you know, if you're five minutes early, you're late. And the point was, I want that whole company and that whole platoon of infantrymen at a designated space way before they're supposed to be there, so they're squared away again. You know, we go back to there's no panic. People are prepared. They're looking around, seeing what's going to come at them. And that was the way the family operated. A family that operates, to use your word, in chaos, is going to have kids that are constantly frazzled, and a family that operates in just that smooth glide, being there early, knowing what is on the next day or the next week, that's the family whose kids are going to be a lot more stable and probably a little bit more sophisticated about how things really work in the world. 

DJ Stutz  7:27  

Yeah, and I just can't express too much how that affects our kids. So we wind up with if they're little, and all they know is a chaotic family, everything's just rushing all around, and we're always late, or we're always in a rush, or I can't find this, and I can't find that, and whatever. So anyone who's listened to me for very long, they know that we adopted our youngest out of foster care. She was 12 years old, and chaos was her comfort zone. And so when things became too normal, or even if she looked like she was going to succeed at something, she would work her butt off on a project or a goal, and she would get so close, and then she'd have to mess it up. And I'm like, you put so much time into this, like, I'm so surprised. And she would slough it off. But now as an adult, and we've been able to have different conversations that she's an adult, and she's like, Mom, you were right that I still like if things are too calm, if things are too organized, I'm uncomfortable, and so we don't want that for our kids. We want them to find comfort in being able to finish a goal, being able to see what's coming on and be prepared, and not having that chaos in the morning when we're trying to get out the door or dinner ready or whatever it is, 

Jeff Nelligan  8:46  

Yeah? And it also, you know, it's not only just the routine. I use the calendar in the kitchen. It's just kind of a primitive, very simple example. And, you know, parents listening now, mom and dads are going, well, you know, we have one of those. And good for you. If you do, that's good. I mean, that's a simple way of managing it, because kids, five years old, can react. Another thing we did is Sunday night, we'd all sit down in front of the calendar and say, Hey, what's your day to day this week? What's the big thing that you've got to be prepared for? Obviously, it's a test, you know, a big test, or it's a big game, or it's a big social situation. So again, you're reinforcing that idea of just knowing everything ahead of the time and being organized. But I think another way of, you know, enhancing self discipline. And again, this is what I did with my sons, is I put them all on teams from a very early age, age of four, first soccer and then later lacrosse. Because if you're on a team, you learn three things. You learn the camaraderie of being with a bunch of other kids your age who are seeking a goal. Even if you don't like a few guys in the team, you still have to get along with them. Second thing you learn is you learn that adversity, there's a winner at the end and a loser, and if you become too comfortable with being that loser, that doesn't work later on in the real world, not just in rec soccer in fourth grade, but the best thing about a team, the third thing is, and it goes right back to your theme of today, is discipline, self discipline. If you don't want to sit on the bench as the ages get older and the teams get more competitive, then you've got to practice, and mostly that's practice on your own. You have to force yourself, or maybe you love this sport, so you like practicing, but you have to build that discipline into your day to say, I'm going to, like I was explaining earlier. I'm going to take my lacrosse stick and the ball and I'm going to aim it at that brick on the wall, and I'm going to hit it 200 times before I go in. It's that self discipline. Now we speak about, well, the athletic metaphor is an easy one, but it can be replicated in anything, in marching band, in theater productions, in the scouts, in dance companies, swimming, anything that brings a lot of kids of a like mind and supportive parents together that is aiming at that goal. You can build self discipline that way as well.

DJ Stutz  11:08  

Absolutely you can. And I think that it's also understanding that other people are counting on you. Yeah, it's not all about you. Love you. You're adorable, you're cute, you lighten my day. But it's not all about you. It is about how you affect the others that are around you, and that's part of executive functioning is really key for even young kids. So when I was teaching kindergarten, that was one of our things when we would offer choices, is to say this is a choice you have. What's going to happen to Joey if you do that? What's going to happen to our classroom as we're trying to learn something, if you're riling up the room and whatever, and often I would say is that what you really wanted to happen when they make a choice, or somebody's hurt, or somebody sad or whatever, I would point out, Susie's feeling really bad because you called her or whatever. Is that what you wanted? Did you want her to feel sad? Now, some of my kids were very honest, and would say, yes, I wanted her to feel bad.  And so it's like, okay, so we'll go a different route. But I think helping our kids even again at a young age, and when we're saying gentle touch, when they're around a baby or even a pet or whatever, and we teach them gentle touch, well, why gentle touch? We don't want to hurt them. We don't want them to feel bad or whatever. And you have an effect on how that other person is feeling, and you have a responsibility in the way that you interact with that brand new baby or the puppy or whatever, to make them feel safe and to actually be safe. And where does that go? And kids can pick up on that. And I was a big sister at 14 months, and I'm the oldest of seven, so I watched this process many times.  And at 14 months a year and a half, you can say, Ooh, soft touch. And you're taking their hand and you're helping them understand what soft touch is. Those are the very Inkling beginnings of self discipline, 

Jeff Nelligan  13:17  

Yeah. And you know, that's, I didn't even think of that, that aspect you just brought up, that other people are relying upon you. But, you know, of course, it makes, makes perfect sense. I mean, I look at the evolution of my sons, you know, who? Yeah, once they were 14 months, and then they were four, and then they were 14, and then they were 24 and I, you know, that aspect of now, all of a sudden, I can't, you know, I never thought of it before, but they were pretty good at self discipline. Maybe it was the calendar, maybe it was the way the parents modeled themselves around these kids. But the self discipline leads to achievements, and then those achievements throughout like a kid's life, like my middle kid, who know nothing, just another guy growing up, but through self discipline and everything else was happening to him, kind of emerged as a leader. He was a three sport captain in high school, and then he went into the Naval Academy, and then next thing, you know, he's on a guided missile destroyer, but a very disciplined guy. I mean, if you're not disciplined, you don't get in the Naval Academy. You know, that's just the way it is. The world honors discipline. People undisciplined people are too erratic for the day to day work of accomplishment and success in the world. And yeah, you'll have some outliers, but that's the way it works. So when you talk about the self discipline of a kid who's four, and then 14, and then I'm thinking of this kid at 24 Yeah, there was a lot of people relying on him. He was, he was in the Persian Gulf in the Strait of Hormuz at night with Iranian mines and patrol boats all around him for weeks at a time. And he was officer of the deck of the bridge, guiding. ship through them. Now here's a 24 year old kid responsible for 250 guys on a guided missile destroyer. And that's the guy they went to. They could have gone to a dozen other, you know, second lieutenants. They went to my guy to say, You got to get us through this night after night at the bridge of the ship, guiding us through this stuff. So I never thought of that people counting on you, but there's a real world example where it does come and where it does occur. That same scenario I just laid out has happened to him a lot, as well as the two other guys. So yeah, there you go. Right. I didn't even think of it, and then that kind of sparked that recounting.

DJ Stutz  15:38  

Thank you, and I think too, as we're teaching our kids, how many times have I even heard adults excuse really bad behavior, rude, awful behavior because they were mad or because I was tired or I had a bad day at work or whatever, and they're making excuses for their own lack of self discipline, and suddenly it's okay that I do that. But would you give that excuse to your kid? Like if your kid just had a bad day at school and they come home and start screaming and yelling at you and calling you names or hitting the wall or hitting another person or whatever, would you let them have that excuse? And yet, I see that happening even in public, so a clerk isn't able to do whatever you wanted them to do. Or, you know, maybe the clerk's having a bad day, I don't know, so let's make it worse. But how we manage our own self discipline, in our behavior, in our words, in whatever really does set an example for our little ones. 

Jeff Nelligan  16:39  

Yeah you hate to beat up on parents who've had a rough day or whatever. But then it goes back to you got a model for the kid? You're on stage until that kid shuts his eyes at night, that whole day, you're right front and center and the spotlight's on you. So you can't afford to have those kind of moments, and if you have them, they better be dang and frequent, yeah, because if you lose it once, you know it's a slippery slope. You lose it once, and then you lose it twice, and then you lose it 22 times, and the kid’s looking at you, and of course, that's the first person and the first individual from whom they're going to take their signals. So it's a parent that's got to be the one that's keeping it cool, no matter what you know. I remember in part of the, one of the sections of the book, you know, again, Four Lessons from my Three Sons. I’d just been fired from a job because I was a campaign guy, and I was on the wrong side of an election, and it was evident to everybody in the family. And dad got fired, and we were playing football one Sunday, as we always did, and I said, Hey, man, one more throw, and then we'll get the donuts, you know, like we always have been doing for years, and the youngest kid shriek the oldest kid shrieks at me as I'm letting this rainbow go downfield, Dad, we can't you got fired from your job. We can't afford donuts. And I just turned to him, and I finished throwing the pass. I turned to him and I said, Yeah, it's the end of the world. And the most sardonic fashion voice I can possibly manage. And he was just in terror. And yet the youngest kid was with him, and he was too. And then the other kid came back, and I said, Let's have a seat at the 50 yard line, my office, my new office. And I said, You know what, guys, it's not a big deal. Yeah, I got fired, and it's not pretty, but I'm going to rally. I'll get a new job. I got you guys to keep me company. I got to work on my throwing arm. You know, this is nothing in the scheme of things. Don't hammock. And so they immediately knew the old man was in control. He, you know what he was doing here. And it just eased the drama balloon. And no anger, no screaming. Talk about a bad day. Yeah, you're fired. Okay, now, what? I’ve got three kids in private school and I have no income. Yeah, that's a bad day. That's a really bad day. But today, you keep using that phrase that became one of the phrases they used when they got in a bind. They drop a gallon of milk on the floor in the kitchen. Oh, it's the end of the world, or they get a D on a test. It's the end of the world. It just like I said before, it deflated the drama balloon so that they could handle something and not get into this panic, or to use your earlier word, not get this chaos of mind that everything was going to fall apart on and that's the modeling that the parents should have now. Was it easy for me? No, it's not easy for me, but to panic in front of the kids, because one says you got fired from your job and we can't afford a dozen donuts. Can't let that go unanswered, and you have to answer it by calming everybody down. And maybe that's a piece of advice for parents who come home who've had a bad day. If they can top that bad day, then maybe they're allowed to go nuts a little bit.

DJ Stutz  19:40  

Yeah, well, and I think it's okay too to even sit down and the kids are just like, You know what? Mom's just had a really, really rough day. Today. I need 10 minutes, I need whatever, so that I can calm down. Because I'm really not calm. I look calm. I am not calm inside. I. So Right? Let's set the timer for 20 minutes, whatever it is that you need, and give it to the kid and say, will you come get me when this timer goes off? Now they're in charge. They've got something to do, and then they can come in. Great, mom. Timer went off, okay, and you're gonna have to suck it up, because your mom or dad, who you've had that time, and then you're gonna go in and say, Okay, thank you for giving me that space. I really needed it. I feel a little better now. And you know what, I've got you guys near me, and that always makes me happy. What are we teaching our kids with that?

Jeff Nelligan  20:38  

That is a great story, man. I wish I’d thought of it. I mean, that's just wonderful. Hey, kid, watch that timer, and when it's up, come get me and the parent having the maturity to say again, inside I'm churning. It doesn't look like it, but you give me 10 minutes, you're responsible for that timer. So when it's done, you come get me and we'll chat again. You know that goes back to I always thought this every minute of every day, almost, well, not all the time, but it was a pounding soundtrack. Was you're on stage, you're on stage until they're asleep, and then you can just feel bad or whatever. But if you're have a good crowd, you're not modeling for your kid what the right things are to do. You're not being the 100% parent you need to be. 

DJ Stutz  21:25  

Yeah.  And the fun thing is, when your child comes home from school and gives you the timer and says, I need five minutes,

Jeff Nelligan  21:32  

That's great. Wow. What a super scenario you've set up. I really like that.

DJ Stutz  21:39  

It's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. And I think too, keeping things in perspective, I love that you said that it's not the end of the world. So I think as parents, and then we teach our kids to do this through those kinds of things, keeping things in perspective helps us. That takes so much self discipline, but to really look how bad is this really? And then what's the next step that I need to do, instead of losing my mind, getting all upset, right?

Jeff Nelligan  22:07  

You're so right about that.  I like the way you put it. That's the perfect phrase, keeping it all in perspective. And maybe that's what you've had. Well, obviously it's what you've had to do as a teacher, a mom, a grandmother, you know, the whole gamut of things that you do around kids, keeping in perspective, because every day, no one gets a free ride in life and no adult and no kid. So the sooner that you can get a kid able to get beyond the obstacle of the day and the setback of the week, just like an adult does, the more confident they become in handling them as they come down the line. You know, in the book, you know, I gave them tests and challenges in order to build that resilience, to keep that perspective. You know, like I we spoke about earlier, we're in a big indoor mall Saturday, churning with people and noise and everything else, and I yank out the wallet, go. I love his story, $5 in change. Each kid gets a $5 bill. Give him a test, and of course, the test graduate, but they're constantly running into obstacles. So why don't you prepare them for those obstacles by giving them challenges so they know they can get over the next challenge. And I will tell you, any parent knows, and I know better than maybe most of the parents listening, because my kids are growing up. The oldest is 28 now, and like you mentioned at the beginning, they're all three military officers. They're facing challenges every Dang day, and they're facing challenges in which they're responsible for 40 or 50 men and women. But it all starts back when they were four or five, and I was saying, you need to do these things, you know, seven, hey, Junior, you need to get out the car with me, and we're going to change the oil. And, yeah, you're going to get it in your face a little bit, but you're going to learn how to do it, and then you're going to learn what the engine compartment is, stuff like that. Because talk about putting things in perspective when you keep meeting the challenge and hitting the mark, then everything folds into perspective. You know what you can do and you know what you're going to need help with, and you've probably seen that again in your career countless times. 

DJ Stutz  24:11  

Yeah, but one of the things that I love, and you talk about this so nicely in your book, which again I love your book, is actually planning ahead and setting up situations where your kids are either going to develop confidence or develop that self discipline, but you're you're not just letting life happen, although there's a lot of opportunities. Again, you mentioned it in your book of just watching society and seeing examples of good and bad and bringing that to your child's attention, but then plan ahead and make activities with that specific goal in mind. And how am I going to teach my child this? And then we're going to go to the mall and give them five bucks and say, Go get change and bring it back and find that confidence. And. That ability to speak to someone and to navigate a busy place. And so I love that you really bring in that plan ahead and then specifically plan those activities that are going to teach this lesson. 

Jeff Nelligan  25:14  

Yeah, and it's easy to do in this modern age, for example, yeah, by the time they turned eight, they had to make every appointment. They had to call the doctors and the dentists, wow, whatever endeavors they had to do, I'd say, here's the number. You make it for one of these days. I'll give you the days you call and you do the whole transaction. You know, back to school for back to school, shopping for clothes. I'd literally give the guys cash and say, Okay, here we are in the middle of Sears, or Marshalls or Old Navy, here's some cash. What things do you need? And we kind of put there and make a list of what they needed. And I say, Go get them. I'll be standing right here. Go get your stuff. Try stuff on, make sure it's your right size, maybe a little bit bigger because you're going to be growing, but yes, you get it, and here's the money to pay for it, and take as much time as you want. And all three would go off and do it. They buy whatever they needed from their list that we had compiled all together, and they'd go get it. When I would tell parents that, they go, what the hell? And I say, yeah, why do I need to walk around with them choosing what they're going to wear for the next six months to a year? They know best. They know better, and they can do it. Because if they can't do that, what the hell is going to happen to them in three months at school in the midst of a bad scene? So they have to learn how to do this stuff. Parents couldn't believe it. We go to shop for school supplies. I just turn them loose in a Target in the Walmart and say, here's some money. Go get whatever you guys need. I'll be standing right here. We made some lists up. You see anything else you need? Subtract that from the list and bring it all back. Here's the cash. Buy it and I'll see you. I mean, parents today, they can't even conceive of something like that. That was just routine. That was routine. We go to a restaurant. I pointed to the six year old kid, and I said, you're going to memorize everything that we are ordering, and you're going to tell the waiter exactly what we want. What I'm saying is these kind of endeavors and these tests present themselves every moment of every day, and whatever the season is or whatever the time is, whether it be buying all your clothing for back to school on your own, for all your school supplies, or memorizing this, or, Hey, here's the old man's ATM card. Go get me 300 bucks and I'll see you back here in 20 minutes. I mean, stuff like that. You have to do that because the kid gets more emboldened and more resourceful and more confident, and then, like I said, He's 24 and he's in charge of 257 guys in the midst of a war zone. That's how it ends up. Yeah, you know, there's other parents can say my kid's 24 and he's on the trading desk of Goldman, and he just did a securities deal worth 25 million bucks. So that's the kind of stuff that happens when you have that kid young. You know? I want to point out one thing too, and talk we talked about it earlier. DJ, 75% of the time a parent is going to spend with their kid is over by the kid time the kid is age 12, and 90% is over by the time the kid reaches age 18. So all you young parents out there, if you really want to make that impression, you better start early. Yeah, does by 12, that's it. The rest of 25% of their life is all you're going to see, and you won't even that's not going to be very much by 18, 10% so you gotta inculcate these values early and often.

DJ Stutz  28:40  

You absolutely do, and it's so important for the happiness and success of our kids. So I've heard so many parents, and I was among them that would say, I just want my kid to be happy. There's been a few decades now that I've come to that realization that, no, no, I don't. I want them to be good. I want them to be reliable and sometimes doing the right thing, having that self discipline to say, these are my values, and I'm not going to cross them, even if it's hard for me, I'm not going to cross these values. So like, if you're in some store and your kid is with their friends and they're trying to get him to shoplift something or take something or whatever, and your child has that confidence and the self discipline on their own to say no, not doing that and walk out. That's not necessarily the happy thing to do, not in the moment now, as he watches his friends get marched out by the cops because they got caught shoplifting, that might be a little happier but and like whoa, I'm so glad I didn't do that, teaching them that goodness, dependability, having that thing is actually in the moment more important than that. Happiness. But in the long run, my life is going to be way happier than those friends who do not have the self discipline, who are super impulsive, who don't look at the consequences down the road or how it's going to affect other people and their lives struggle.

Jeff Nelligan  30:16  

Yeah, you know, and it's neat that you can kind of check yourself on the idea of happiness versus good. You know, happiness is such a transitory term. When people talk about happiness, I just, yeah, you know, just, it's like part of the feelings, sentiment, current age, everything is a feeling. When sentiment, people want to be inclusive and equitable and diversity range. It kind of gets modeling, you know, the sentimentality of the age, satisfaction. That's the word that I've always used, because I like you. I mean, first of all, you know, happiness is great, but if you take a deeper look at it, you know, happiness just flees like the sun at the end of the day. Satisfaction is consistent, it's sustained, it's endures, and satisfaction is right along there with performance. Satisfaction means something that has been achieved after some work. Performance is the means of getting to that satisfaction. Performance counts. In fact, performance is the only thing that counts. And if you if there are parents listening to me right now, they don't agree, then once you put on a big smile the next time your kid brings home an F on a report card. In the real world, where we all live performance, is it? And your kid doesn't have to be the a student. Your kid doesn't even have to be the B student, but the kids got to try, and the kids got to reach that satisfaction level that they did the best they could. So I'm big into the satisfaction rather than happiness, and I'm big into performance rather than the feelings and the sentiment of an age which is kind of what we're unfortunately in now,

DJ Stutz  31:54  

Yep, that's so true. That's so true. I wish we had like, hours to talk. And so this is your second, third time on our show. The other episodes, I'll put them in the show notes so they can go back and look and we'll definitely talk again, for sure. So Jeff, if our parents, or if our listeners want to know more about you, what you've got going on, I know your books. Where do they go? 

Jeff Nelligan  32:22  

Sure, and before I answer that, I just like to leave parents with three easy, actionable items that they can take away from this moment on and put into use immediately. Number one, I don't know everything about parenting. I think DJ knows a lot more than I do about parenting, but in my own little way, with my three sons and their magnificent mom, here's three things you might think about, because if you read my book or go to my site, you'll see the progress of my kids, and maybe it'll be something that you are enlightened by or want to pursue. Number one, yank the screen and the device out of your kids hands for good. I don't care if the kid’s three. Did you know the kids between the ages of three and five look at a screen almost over 90 minutes every day. That's insanity. Yeah, kids from 10 to 18, it's eight hours and 47 minutes. It's almost nine hours a day. That's passive, destructive behavior. So yank the screen out of their hands and get a social media contract and do not yourself be seen with a screen in your hands in front of your kids. That's number one. Number two, read with your kid, no matter what the age is, an hour a day, at night, if the kid can't read, you read to them. If the kid can read, you have a book and you sit next to them for an hour, no devices within 100 miles. The third thing is take half an hour a day to walk your kid through your neighborhood, through a park, anywhere outside the house, outside the realm of those crazy screens, into nature, the real world, where activity is there and the sky is above. Those three things will change a kid so fast you won't be able to believe it. How do I know it works? Because that's what I did with my three kids for years and years and years, even when they were in high school, and something worked. So those are things I believe parents with who are just looking for something now this moment to change the trajectory of their kid is for me, just my books are all at WWW dot Nelligan books.com I'm on Twitter at resilience sons, Instagram, at Nelligan underscore books, and on Facebook, on Jeff Nelligan books.  And I have an active blog@nelliganbooks.com as well as different podcasts I've been on, so it's the whole gamut. Again, I may sound like a little bit of a doctrinaire or harsh dad, but I've been through this all, so I'm a little bit unfiltered. And the idea is, fairy tales about how to raise kids aren't going to do anybody any good, right?

DJ Stutz  34:57  

Well, and two, here's my thing. With you, Jeff, is that you can be firm and you can enforce boundaries and have all of these things without being a turd about it. You don't need to be the screaming, yelling, negative, calling names because they broke a rule or they didn't follow through. It's like, well, here we are. What are we going to do about this? Now? You know our values. How's this going to move forward when you approach it with that, they're going to know Dad, Mom, you guys mean business. You love me. You're not demeaning my existence, right? I mean, I've literally heard parents say, I wish you were never born, and I just heart Yes, whoa, yes. And I just, I kind of would love to throttle that parent, but it wouldn't do anyone any good. So just be really cognizant of it's important. It's not even just good. It's important to have these firm boundaries and these guidelines and to set up these situations for them, but you do so with firmness, but with love and tenderness.  And I don't need to be screaming and yelling or hit you to enforce a rule,

Jeff Nelligan  34:57  

Right.  For any parent reading that book, it's  Four Lessons from my Three Sons. It's a 40 minute read, and it's a yuck fest. It's just laughs. It's all about how easy and how humorous parenting can be when you're doing it right, or at least the way that I did it. I know there's right ways for everybody. So the book itself is just, you know, it's kind of an easy read. It's funny, and it will give you ideas that you'll never have to approach. I wish you were never born. Man, that's just that's over the top. Oh, you know, talk about self control. 

DJ Stutz

Yeah, exactly. So Jeff, I know I've asked you this before, but I'm gonna ask you again, because I ask everyone at the end sure is, how would you describe a successful parent? Because we know there's no perfect parent. 

Jeff Nelligan

Oh, boy. I'll go right back to the words we were talking about earlier, a successful parent is one that is satisfied with the path and the decisions and the accomplishments and the steadfastness of their kids. That's a successful parent, whatever the kid's doing. If that kid has all those markers that you as a parent have looked for and he or she exceeds them or meets some you're a successful parent. Awesome.

DJ Stutz  37:22  

So true. Awesome. Jeff. I love you. Thank you so much for coming and being a part of this, and for all of my families, feel free. In fact, I encourage you to vote for my podcast, but B, go down into those show notes and look at those links that we've got there. There's just so much great information there, and so until next time, let's find joy in parenting. See you guys.