Episode 45: Learn How to Teach Your Child to be Successful with Money with Laurel Makowem

DJ Stutz  0:13  
You're listening to Episode 45 of Imperfect Heroes, Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world. I'm your host DJ Stutz. And Laurel Makowen is a certified education instructor and the founder of mothers teaching money, which is a business and actually a movement that helps mothers raised financially confident, responsible and independent adults, regardless of their own financial knowledge or situation. Her mission is to normalize financial conversations, and demystify the idea of financial literacy. Her mission is to normalize financial conversations with your kids, and demystify the concept of financial literacy. She provides fun online courses, she's got workshops and products for children as young as five years old, and has a specially designed products to financially empowered teenage girls as well. She has some great insights on how we can educate ourselves as parents, so that we can help our children have a greater understanding and relationship with money than perhaps we had growing up. There's so much to learn. So let's get started.

You know, just last week, I was in the hallway at school with one of my students, and a fourth grader came out of the bathroom. And while she was washing her hands, we asked her what she was learning in her class. And she totally surprised me by saying, Oh, we're learning about how money works. And I replied, really. And she said you were learning about consumers and credit cards and how interest adds a lot of money to the things you buy. And then she continued with, you have to be really careful with credit cards. I don't think I ever want one. I was so surprised, but happily so. And I thought back to when my oldest daughter was off to her freshman year of college and when some credit card companies came accordion, and she was very excited about this and wound up with some real debt that she had to work through. And I felt so bad that I hadn't taught her more about that financial literacy. Well, Laurel Makowem is here to help. And she started off with her own negative relationship with money. And she just want to better for her son. And so she started learning. And now she has so much knowledge that she can help others work with their children. Let's listen in. 

I am joined here today with Laurel Makowem and she is amazing. I found her just by looking up things about kids and I saw mother's teaching money. And I thought, I'm gonna look at that. And I looked and I thought she was so amazing. And I finally got the courage up to email her or contact her and ask if she would be on our program. And I was so excited when she said, Yes. So Laurel, thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. And why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and, and your life and what you do.

Laurel Makowem  3:50  
Thanks, DJ. I'm very happy to be here today as well. So I live in New Zealand, and I'm actually from South Africa. I'm married and I've got one boy, he's 17. And my business mother's teaching money is exactly what it says it is. It's basically about helping mothers raise children who are good with money. And it kind of started as a hobby, I was raised, really not learning anything about money and with a very sort of scarcity based money mindset. And when my child was about eight, I realized I was teaching him my relationship with money and really not many skills that would stand him in good stead as an adult. So it was kind of a catalyst for a really big change in my life. And here we are nine years later. And

DJ Stutz  4:42  
such a good point though here is that you realized you were teaching your son, your relationship with money. Yeah, and I don't know about you, but I know about me, and my relationship with money was not great. always from a point of scarcity, being afraid, even though my dad, he was a professor at UCLA. But there were seven. And he just always would tell us, we can't afford that we can't afford this. And then my husband's the youngest of nine, so that just even made it worse. So I love that you recognized that your relationship probably wasn't as healthy as it should be. And so you decided to make some changes, and get some education right? To not pass that on to your son. Yeah.

Laurel Makowem  5:39  
So, you know, I suppose when you become a parent, well, for me, anyway, it was the first time I really almost had the opportunity to examine many things about myself. And my relationship with money was just one of the relationships that were a little bit toxic. And, you know, you can see you can see your children on doing what you do. And what you were saying about your dad would say, we can't afford that. So many children grow up in an environment where they hear things like that, we can't afford that. It's not for people like us, money doesn't grow on trees, do you think I've made a made of money? If we really look at our words, and we hear how we talk about ourselves, and money, and money, and money in the rest of the world, that is what our children are learning about money. And I like to break it right down when I teach children. I don't teach children directly, but I really work with mothers, and then they share that with their children. But I do have some products and workshops for children. So I like to start off by saying, Well, what is money? And a lot of people grow up thinking, Well, money makes you bad, or money makes you greedy, or money is evil. No, money is an object like a table. And a table can't make you greedy or bed. If you the holder of the table decided to pick the table up and smash a window. The table didn't do that. You chose to do that. So with money, I'd say to children, does money have a heart? Does money have a brain? No, well, then it can't make any decisions or choices. It's the person holding the money, who's going to make the choices as to how the money is used. And you're not, I didn't know that. I only started thinking about that in my mid late 40s. Money wasn't good. And people with money were greedy. And as a little girl, and even as a young adult and an older adult. I didn't want to be greedy. So why would I want to attract money into my life and keep some money in my life? It starts off as basic as how are we speaking about money in our heads an awful lot. And that's the place to start. And it doesn't really matter how many skills we learn about money. If our mindset is not abundant, we're not going to do abandoned things with the money. So

DJ Stutz  8:21  
I think there's that religious aspect of money being the root of all evil. You really look at that scripture. It's the love of money.

Laurel Makowem  8:32  
Yes. Now that got lost. That's got lost along the way, right? It's the love of money, not the money. But somehow we say money's bad. No money is not bad. It can't be it's an object. It's a way that people have worked out is a good, easy way to exchange value. That's really what it is. And that's a massive mindset shift for so many people. Because another big thing, and this was one of my beliefs is I really am spiritual and I want to live a good life. And you know, I want to be spiritually doing whatever I can in the world. So how can I want more money? No, I can as

DJ Stutz  9:18  
well, there's so much good that you can do with money. And so it's okay to have it. And then maybe I'm gonna put off getting that new car for a year because my choice is I want to sponsor this child to a summer camp that they really need to go to. I have a brother that he's got eight kids. Wow. Yeah. And they'd saved up and saved up. They all wanted to go to Disneyland. And they knew that that was going to be a big expense. So they came up with a plan on how they were going to save it. How long was it going to take them? The kids were all part of it. And they had enough to Finally to go. And there was a guy at their church that needed this operation and didn't have insurance. And so the family got together and talked about it. And everybody gave an opinion. Everybody talked about what the medical situation was with this guy. And they did decide to forego their vacation and help pay for this guy. So he could have this life changing surgery. And I love that. It was just a tool.

Laurel Makowem  10:35  
Yeah, right. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  10:37  
Yeah, we're gonna use it this way. But we found another purpose over here.

Laurel Makowem  10:42  
And that's incredible. That's an incredible story, that sort of abundance thinking. So yes, they had the money, and they were going to use the money for something and then they chose to use it for something else. And possibly the thinking was, well, we can get more money. That's exactly what it was. So there's the flow, you know, we get some we put some art, we keep some we grow some. And that is abundant thinking there's a wonderful affirmation that I love to suggest people use is every time you use money, just in your head, say, there's more where that came from. And that's just the abundance thinking there is more where that came from. And with effort and work, I can get more.

DJ Stutz  11:30  
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, as we're talking about our little guys, I didn't, I wasn't really taught a lot about money. It was stashed away, stashed it away. And I didn't really learn a lot about appropriate spending, how to budget Ania, that that was for the adults. So when we're talking about our little guys, why is it that we would even want to teach them about money? And we're talking about, you know, a and younger? It's pretty young. It? Is that too young? And why would we? Or would we not want to teach them about money at that age?

Laurel Makowem  12:13  
So you'll probably know more about this than I do. But they say that our beliefs are set by kind of age seven. Yep.

DJ Stutz  12:22  
So pretty firm by five?

Laurel Makowem  12:25  
Well, there we got five. So there's our window, isn't it, we've got those first five years to kind of set them up for success. And when it comes to money, it's no different. So we wanting to show them that we live in an abundant world and my definition of abundance, is there enough resources for everybody and resources could be money, success, love. And a person who thinks abundantly, if say, a little child of eight, her friend are trying for the same role in a play and the friend gets it. The person with an abundance way of thinking will be sad, of course, and disappointed, but they won't be jealous or envious or angry, because in their mind, their success is up there. It's coming from another source. And you know, it's the same with money. Just because you have $10 doesn't mean to say that I can't have the $10 mine is going to come from somewhere else. And that is kind of the framework for building wealth, I suppose is that belief that there's enough money for every one? And what if it didn't work, we can get it. And if we set our children up with that framework, I can do it, I'm capable. I'm a good saver. I'm abundant, then they're setting their little brains up to set them up to do those sorts of actions. And money is a long term goal as raising children who are good with money. It's a long term game, just as raising children who are good citizens is a long term game. And there's no quick strategy here. You know, how can I quickly teach my child how to surf know that there's no quick strategy. I like to talk about seven superpowers. And I've created a financial education framework, and there's five parts to it and one of the parts is seven superpowers. And these superpowers are what help you become financially free and financially independent and financially secure. And they're all within us. And the seven superpowers are number one, your mind and your thoughts. Okay, practice, practice, patience, gratitude, grit or resilience, kindness and time. And everybody has those powers within them. And if we use those, we're going to get better at whatever skill we trying to develop and the thing with them money and time is money needs time to grow. So now we're getting on to investing here. But money needs time to grow, because money needs compound interest to grow. And the sooner our children can start investing in, it might be us investing on their behalf, the longer their money has the opportunity to grow. And that's massive. And most of us aren't taught about that. And it's really quite simple, isn't it? It's quite simple. If I have money, and I have time, my money can can work for me out, you've probably heard that saying, you know, make your money work for you. Yeah, yeah. But you need money, and you need time. So, yeah, it's a long term game. And raising children who are good with money takes time, practice, patience, gratitude, grit. So start as early as possible. And I like to say start when your babies in your tummy, start before they're born. And that's starting with yourself, trying to start looking at your relationship with money. And it's very challenging to do it, because it's so deeply ingrained. And it can be really emotional, to start examining your relationship about money and your relationship with money is really your beliefs, your money, beliefs, and start before they're born, start when they're in your tummy, start with how you speak about yourself and money. That's almost the most important thing, I think. So if your child, your little child is hearing you saying, I'm so bad with money, that's what they get a belief, rather say, mom's learning to be really good with money. And Mom's really good with money, just like mom's really good with sharing, or mom's learning to share. There's no difference. You know, sharing is caring. Our children learned that those are big words, sharing is caring. Let's say a compound interest is carrying, you know, let's just use the words. I love

DJ Stutz  17:13  
that. Just interest is carrying it. I've never

Laurel Makowem  17:22  
thought about that before. But that is pretty good cop found interested carry just to sharing is caring. And I did a post quite recently on my Instagram page. And it's just a lot of moms or parents come to me and say, a child does won't save. And I said to them, What are you teaching them? How would you say? Are you saving? Are you giving them the opportunity to learn how to save? And it's no, we can't expect children to save, which is the precursor of wealth, if we're not teaching them, and giving them the opportunities to learn, and to fail, and to make mistakes and to try again. Gosh, I've got a roundabout way of answering your question. I can't even remember what the question was DJ.

DJ Stutz  18:12  
Oh, no, you've done a great job. We were talking about why we would teach our little guys to save an about money.

Laurel Makowem  18:19  
Okay, well, here's the simple answer. Money is something that every single person uses every single day of their lives. And most children aren't taught how to use it. So let's they've got the time. So let's use their precious time wisely. Time is a non renewable resource. Money is a renewable resource. You can't get more time, you can get more money. Let's use the time so so wisely. And it doesn't have to be, you know, Big Sit down. Let's have a money lesson. No, it's just what I suggest to parents is really be mindful of how many times you think about money, use money, money somehow crosses your path in one day. And then look at all those times as learning opportunities. You know, how many conversations can you have in a day about money? You can have at least 100 I would guess, but you don't want to have 100 Because you don't want to overload the little darlings, right? It's happening all around us every day advertising. Our little e's are bombarded with messages to buy, buy, spend, live above your means get into debt. No, let's change the narrative. Let's teach them about what advertising is doing. And let's teach them how not to get into debt. And it's not a really difficult thing to do. But it takes time takes time. It takes consistency. It takes repetition and it takes a little bit of work on self I can never just give one simple answer. Always got to go into like 100 different things. But money is a massive subject, and it touches almost every part of our lives. And you know that old saying money can't buy happiness? No, it can't. But a visit to the dentist for a sore tooth makes me very happy. Chocolate makes me very happy for sure. Talking to you makes me very happy. I can't do any of these things without money. I can't I wouldn't have a phone, I wouldn't, wouldn't be able to talk to you if I couldn't afford to buy a phone. So many touches almost every aspect of our lives. And it can improve almost every aspect of ours and other's lives. So too much?

DJ Stutz  20:53  
No, no, that's perfect. Don't worry about it. I was talking to a friend who has a four year old boy. Yeah. And they were at some toy store, they live back East. And the little boy wanted a toy. It was expensive. And Dad said his shows and shows of toys. He doesn't understand that money is responsible for me being able to buy that and take that home for you. And so his answer was I've been good. I want that I've been good. I've been good. But there's more to it than that. He thought that for his son was too young to be able to understand that things cost money. But I think he's plenty old to learn about money back when I was raising kids and you had a checkbook? And yeah, I would go to the store. And I remember my four year old saying if I said I don't have money, my four year old would say yes to do. You got checks. And now it's yes, you do. You've got the debit card or the phone?

Laurel Makowem  22:11  
Or the swapping just swap?

DJ Stutz  22:13  
Yes, yeah. But I do think that kids that age are totally capable of making a connection. It may not be a super, super deep one. But they can make a connection and understanding that things cost money, I go to work to make money so that I can buy. And that's actually a social studies lesson that we teach in pre K and kindergarten.

Laurel Makowem  22:44  
Oh, that's interesting. So So sorry, what what do you teach them? You got to work to make money so you can buy things?

DJ Stutz  22:51  
Yeah. Or because when mom and dad make money, that's what pays for gas in the car. So you can drive? Or that's what pays student you want to go buy clothes for school. Mom and dad need to have that money. Well, where do they get that money. And so we have little conversations, they're adorable, by the way, but little conversations with the kids.

Laurel Makowem  23:18  
And I'm sure they're pretty involved in those conversations. I totally agree with you Dejah. I think money is happening. And they're learning their relationship with money regardless of whether we teaching them or not. So let's teach them. Just back to that story about the little boy who wanted the toy. So for me, the first thing is don't tie money and the toy to being good or bad. It's got they've got nothing to do with each other. Nowadays, mistake number one, don't say if you're good, I'll buy your toy. Personally, I don't like to use money for rewards or punishments. Personally, I don't do rewards and punishments for stuff. But I don't think it's fair for little children to tie their behavior to something financial, you can tie it to something work related. This is your job. And if you do the job, you're going to get money. If you don't do the job, you're not going to get money, but that's got nothing to do with the behavior. That's a work ethic. So I think that once again, if our children see us budgeting, they learning about budgeting. If our children see us as maybe we have a little job at home, and they see us saving their learning about saving we using the words we telling them why don't take the child to the toy shop because what do you honestly expect? Put me in a chocolate factory with a chocolate addict in a chocolate factory. I want all the chocolates. So as an adult I'm going to choose Not to go to the Chocolate Factory. If you take little kids to a toy store, what are they going to want, they're gonna want toys. So don't take them. That's sort of my thinking. I know it's not always easy. But also, as I said, right at the beginning of our conversation is, don't expect to go to the toy store once and teach your child about the value of money, have those conversations before you go, they won't get it the first few times they'll throw a tantrum, of course, they want that toy. But with practice, and over time, they will start understanding. But if you don't teach them, they're never going to understand. I know a lot of parents have to take their kids grocery shopping. And it can be a really trying time for parent and child. And something that I find helpful. It doesn't work all the time, nothing works all the time with parenting and children, right. And before you go to the grocery store, you talk about what you're going to do there, what you're going to buy. And here's $1, or $2, or let's take $1, I've just spent jar, whatever. And at the end of the shop, you can spend this where you can find something, but then give them boundaries as to what they can bond beforehand is the key. And I like to try and take any opportunity for conflict out of the equation. So I'm trying to move the potential conflict away from a conversation between you and your child about No, you can have that no, you contact that no, we don't have the money. Take it away from yourself and put it onto like this is the list. These are the three things you can choose from, and then use that list. Is it on your list? No, it's not Well, then let's look for things on your list. It's a work in progress. I mean, our children are just little and they're so bombarded. As I say about all this advertising, billions of dollars are spent trying to manipulate our children. And they all know much for that and all week, quite frankly,

but started at home, have the conversations and I love teaching children and parents phrases like it's not in our budget. Not you, we can't afford that. You can't have it. You just want to spend? Well, it's not in our budget. Okay, well, how can I make a plan to get the money together to give that for you? Right. So I think four is absolutely not too young. As I say, I think it should start when they teeny, and they hear about money. They hear words about money that teach them that money is okay. But we've got to take care of the money that we do currently have, we can always get more. And another thing that I found really helpful is make a game of it. So you all go to work and you spend a long time working, what have you doing, and you have money, it can be paper money, it can be little buttons or little stones. And you all work for a long time and you slowly build up this money. And then VIP, you spend it and it goes in a second. So trying to find ways to show children how long it takes to get money, and how quick we can spend it. That's an invaluable lesson, but find ways that they can relate to at the age, because that's the bottom line. Yes, that takes a long time to earn money. And for slightly older children's start actually working out. If you want to buy X and it costs x and I get paid x per hour how many hours must have worked to be able to afford that actually worked out. So even when they start working, how many hours do you have to work to pay for that? And just slowly over time, introduced the value of money and teach them when they little while you're shopping have the conversation about oh, this cost this and this costs that and so if I spend this I have more to save or we can have more to spend on that. Just talk have the conversation. There's their conversations going on in your head, make it large, you know, let your children hear their conversation.

DJ Stutz  29:36  
I agree with that completely. And letting them just feel that I think a visual when you were talking about the pebbles or the buttons, having that visual really helps kids to see how fast it goes. How long it takes to build it up. I haven't yet she just passed recently. But when it's time it's time, right? Yeah, exactly. I remember though, when her kids and they were a little bit younger than me, not much. But at the beginning of school, she would put money in an envelope, and it was cash. And that was the money they had to spend on clothes. Or I know she had an entertainment. So if they wanted to go to a movie, or if they wanted to go miniature golfing, or nowadays it might be buy a game or whatever, then there was cash in that envelope, and so the kids would visually see. And it's like, oh, our clothing, money is gone. We spent all of that, or they want something to do with entertainment, then you can say, well, that costs $10. But I'm looking in the envelope. And what do you see, I see a $5. Bill. Oh, so we're gonna have to wait until we get more to put back in the envelope. And I just always thought that was a brilliant way to have that visual. I know, we don't use cash much anymore. But I do think it's worth especially when you're going through that teaching time, that they see that it's something they feel in touch, and they watch it go away.

Laurel Makowem  31:33  
And yeah, I couldn't agree with you more, it's getting more and more challenging with our cashless world, but there is still money around. So while it's still around, let's use it for our little ease. Because it's tangible. And money is an abstract concept. And most adults country, we're good out. So we can't expect children to work it out. And just what you're saying that's great, the envelope sort of system, you kind of putting the children in control of the decisions as well around the money. And what's really a fantastic thing to do is also said, Okay, well, what did we actually spend all that money on? What do we have to show for all that money that was in the envelope, and pull things out and look at your choices and look at your choices as to how you all spent that money. And so one thing that I think is really important for little us to learn is needs and wants. And I wasn't raised like that. And a lot of kids aren't. And parents must also be involved in this needs and wants and make it a family affair play games. And at dinner, say Okay, everybody go and get something you bought better need. And then you all bring your need to the table and you discuss it because some people's needs or some people's wants and some people's wants or some people's needs. And often we don't know, actually, that was a want because my friend has it, especially children that they don't know that. So let's teach them that difference. And then, you know, move that into, okay, let's all get something that we bought, it was a real waste of money, and everyone brings it to the table or whatever. I don't know how you're different families do things differently, and talk about it. So wow, was this a bad? But did we lose money? So can we make any money back on this? Can we sell it? Or should we donate it? Let's give it to someone who can use it? Right? Here again, conversation, let's talk about needs and wants. Let's talk about our own behavior. You know, where did we make mistakes, kids love it when their parents make mistakes with their parents own up to mistakes, valuable, valuable, valuable lessons being taught the the needs and wants games, and there as well, young children under eight, introduce them to the secondhand economy, introduce them to buying and selling show them that you know you're teaching them in valuable business skills. Another thing that's happening with our young children, and that we can sort of relate to money is this whole contract thing borrowing and lending, their borrowing and lending everything toys, was supposed to toys with children, you know, they're borrowing and lending with each other. And teach them those lessons. If you borrow, you have to pay it, you have to give it back. And if you don't give it back in the best in a way that you found it that might cost you money. Teach them about borrowing that's borrowing and lending that state start teaching them about it that way and be mindful of what they're already doing, and how you can turn those into sort of money related lessons. Yeah, it's

DJ Stutz  34:51  
sounding good. And I love the idea of taking, you know, money may or may not be valuable to a child depending on how Watch they understand, but taking what is valuable to that child, and then start the lessons with that. I love it.

Laurel Makowem  35:11  
Yeah, that's, I mean, money is not really, we want to grow children who don't think money is valuable. We want to grow children who use money to add value to their lives, really, that's kind of sort of the mindset that I like to work from. And it's quite a jump, it was a jump for me. And just back on to little children. I think another thing that's really important is teaching them there's no magic in money, except for compound interest. That is real magic. And if we don't explain how money comes out of an ATM, or what a card is a debit card or credit card, what's actually happening when we swap or push or click or buy now, what's happening, that's money. We've worked for that now. It's here now we can spend a little bit it's not magic, no one's going to give us money. You know, children are growing up thinking money just appears and it just sits in a card, literally. And they call it the magic wall. You just press a few buttons and money comes out. Yeah. And you can buy stuff. No, no, no, no, no. Explain what happens to them. Very, very valuable lesson, especially because of our cashless world. And cashless is our children's norm. It's certainly not mine, I have to learn about it. And I mustn't think that it's not my child's norm. It's not his norm. Cashless. So I've got to work with his norm, if I want to teach him lesson.

DJ Stutz  36:48  
Yeah. And honestly, that's an anything we're trying to teach our kids, for me growing up coming in at 430 in the afternoon to watch dark shadows, which dates me, but all the neighborhood kids would go in for that half an hour show. And then as soon as it was over, we'd be right back out. That was our screen time. Right. Yeah. So it's really hard to sometimes relate or understand screen time, because that's their norm. Right?

Laurel Makowem  37:26  
Exactly. Exactly. And they're even socialized through screen time, which my husband and I get back a little bit stressed because our son chooses to rather stay at home. But he's socializing all weekend. If he's at home. He's socializing all weekend through a screen and a remote and laughing with his friends. And then you hear them talk about school, and then you hear them, you know, make plans for the weekend. And it's like, wow, this is really different. His norm, so ugly. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  38:03  
Yeah. And our dorm was different than our parents.

Laurel Makowem  38:07  
Well, exactly. And one thing I'm so mindful of trying not to say, well, in my day, because I mean, that didn't my parents always drove me insane. in mind

DJ Stutz  38:18  
makes you 100 years old, right?

Laurel Makowem  38:26  
I do think things are changing a bit more quickly than they used to, though, because technology just moves fast. Yeah. Well, why don't

DJ Stutz  38:35  
you just study? Well, not just it's probably been a couple of months, that we're gaining knowledge faster than the human mind is able to process it now. And while that's bringing some new nuances to how do we navigate through through that, and if it's like that now, what's it going to be like, When are kids yeah, to their adult ages, but

Laurel Makowem  38:59  
and, you know, just on that point with COVID was, was so many more people spending so much more time at home and online? Yeah, it's kind of exploded that even more Hey, yeah, yikes. But as with everything, the pros and cons? Yeah,

DJ Stutz  39:18  
absolutely. We were just setting up our times for parent teacher conferences. And I think one of the benefits of that is I have parents that can't get off work and it's tough. Well, they can get an early lunch or takes and we'll just assume it. Were Yeah, before COVID You'd never think of that ever. It wasn't

Laurel Makowem  39:42  
a norm and in two years, it's a norm.

DJ Stutz  39:46  
Yeah. So it's an amazing Alright, definitely. All these. Yes, I know. I am an all day my body reminds me of that. But my brain still wants to say You're 19. So

Laurel Makowem  40:03  
love that

DJ Stutz  40:04  
people want to learn more about what you have to offer or where they can go, where should I send them?

Laurel Makowem  40:11  
I think Instagram is sort of my biggest social media platform. And my handle is Mother's teaching money. And I have a website, same name, mother's teaching money. And yeah, those are trying to add a lot of free value through my Instagram account. And I have very, very affordable online products, and workshops, and you can find all the information really through my Instagram account, which takes you the bio, the link takes you through to more information, Instagram is my is my best place to find me.

DJ Stutz  40:48  
Well, and I'll be sure to get that in our show notes. I think, if they can't remember, if any, my parents out there, kind of forget, then it's obvious in the shownotes. And so they'll be able to get that,

Laurel Makowem  41:01  
can I just just end with, you know, money is a very emotional topic for many; extremely emotional and not one that a lot of people like to sort of air publicly and I'm always very open on my DMs and my emails. You know, if someone wants to chat, obviously, I'm, I'm not there to fix anyone's financial situation, I'm there to help you teach your own child about money. But if you want to connect, but you don't want to do it publicly connect privately and can direct you wherever and I know it's a very emotional topic for many and not one that you want to put up there.

DJ Stutz  41:40  
Yeah, for sure. I always ask my guests the same question at the end of our podcast. And that is, how would you describe a successful parent?

Laurel Makowem  41:55  
successful parent? I think successful parent is one who just is continuously learning how to be a better parent. And who knows that from the day their little monkey is born. They are preparing them to go them to go. I think that is successful parent, you're and you're just guarding your child as best you can, and constantly trying to learn and grow. So you can be a better guide for your child that that's what I think, Well,

DJ Stutz  42:32  
I happen to agree with you.

Laurel Makowem  42:33  
Oh, good.

DJ Stutz  42:35  
Yeah, our big goal is to get them out of the house.

Laurel Makowem  42:40  
But we want them up the house, knowing how to be be independent, and to continue growing and being independent. And knowing that there there knocks the ups and downs and that's love. Yeah. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  42:56  
I see people who just can't seem to manage when things go wrong. And it's a sad place to be. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, well, thank you so much, Laurel for being part of this. I so appreciate it. You are fantastic. I'm telling everybody, get on her Instagram. She has so much great information. She does lives. She is just a wealth. And whenever I see her on my feed, I always go to that and see where we are. So I highly, highly recommend her and what she has to offer a lot of thanks again for coming.

Laurel Makowem  43:39  
Thank you, DJ, it was lovely chatting, and thank you so much and straight back at you. I think you're an amazingly inspiring woman. And I'm so glad we connected.

DJ Stutz  43:50  
Thank you. Me too. freediver opposite ends of the world. And it's so cool.

Laurel Makowem  43:56  
We just having a chat. And even more guys, like I'm in your classroom with you. It's like, just

DJ Stutz  44:03  
Yeah. So for my audience, as we're recording, I'm literally in my classroom, because it was right after school. And so yeah, I'm sitting in my classroom, and we're doing this and how cool is that?

Laurel Makowem  44:18  
It's incredible. Anyway, okay. Thank you so much for having me.

DJ Stutz  44:22  
Thank you, talk to you by so much good advice, and so many great ideas. And as adults, we often don't have a great relationship with money. And this could be from experiences that we had as we were growing up, or the things that we were taught, and even an uncomfortable relationship with math can make us afraid that we'll never understand how money or investments and returns work. So we just avoid them and throw our stuff into an investment plan and never track how it's doing. Recognizing our own money relationship. means that we really don't need to pass those on to our children. And there are so many resources that are out there that can really help. And Mother's teaching money is one of them. There's a children's bank in downtown Denver called the young American Center for Financial Education. And I'm told it's the only one of its kind in the world. And it's specifically designed for kids under the age of 21. And they have accounts from all over the world. They have day long field trips, where classes work through an economy, there are shops where kids work to develop and sell their goods. And then other kids get to be the consumers. They also have these week long summer camps that are designed to work with children in developmentally appropriate activities that will help them learn about money and how it works. If you're interested in learning more about how to educate your children in how to handle money, there's so many places available, don't stick them with your own knowledge or the lack thereof. Laurel's information is all in our show notes along with some of the other things that we've talked about. So while you're checking that out, give us that five star rating and review, it really does just take a minute. And with those reviews, we're able to find other families and then be sure to also follow us because that helps us even more to expand the podcasting get the word out, you can always register for my newsletter. So my company is actually called Little Hearts Academy USA. And that's where I do my parent coaching. And I also have some workshops that are up there. I have a lot of free past Facebook Lives that you can watch or listen to. We've got some stories, some book readings that are there, some songs to sing with your kids, different activities that you can do. It's really worth checking out. There's a lot there. And then, of course, be part of my Instagram family. Just follow me at Imperfect Heroes podcast, and you will get helpful hints and tips and information on upcoming episodes. And sometimes I'll pop in and do a live every once in a while. I'll be looking for you. And next week is Elizabeth Andreski. And she is a stress coach for moms. And after struggling to implement gentle parenting. Because she was internally feeling burnt out overwhelmed and stressed she was able to learn and now teaches moms to prioritize their needs and ways to relax their nervous system as well as in the moment emotion regulation strategies to avoid those grown up emotional explosions. We've all been there you know what I'm talking about. So until next time, let's find joy in parenting.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai