Our 100th Episode Celebration. Proof That We are Still Figuring Out How to be a Successful Parent.

Children  0:00  
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DJ Stutz  0:22  
Hey, guys, welcome to Imperfect Heroes - Insights Into Parenting. And this is episode 100. 

I know I can't believe it. We started this adventure almost two years ago. And that that time the thought the idea of 100 episodes just wasn't even in my mind. It was just trying to get started and get going. And I would see other podcasts that had more than 100 episodes, that Oh, wow, and how cool that is, you know, someday? Well, someday is today. And we're here. And so I'm so grateful that you joined us to be a part of it, you know, at the end of every episode, when I have a guest, and that's most of the time, I always ask them the same question. And that is, how would you describe a successful parent? Remember, our title is Imperfect Heroes. And so we understand and recognize that nobody's perfect. Nobody ever has been, nobody ever will be. That's just how it goes. But we can continue to try and make those connections and to look at new ways and different insights, things that I can tweak just a little bit to make things a little better. But the reality is that I have seen families that have been amazing, just amazing parents, they're involved in the community. They're involved in their faith based activities. They're involved in service, they connect with their kids, they support their kids, there are positive in their approach with life, not just their kids, but life in general. And sometimes you see kids who grow up in those kinds of amazing environments, still struggle as they become teenagers and move on into adulthood. And so were those parents a failure? No, they were not. They were not? Were they unsuccessful? No, they were not. And so we really need to, I think, approach the word success with an open mind. And to understand that when we are successful, that's our thing. me as a mom, my husband is Dad, we are set up to do things the best we can. And then guess what the kids have the right to choose, they have free agency to choose which way they're going to go. And so as I had grown up and become an adult, and had my own family, I didn't do everything that my mom and dad taught. The examples that they said, The some things I did better, some things I didn't maybe do so well with. But I was free to choose my own life, right? The same thing is going to happen with your kids, you know, and on the other side, I've seen kids and adults who have come from horrible situations, crime ridden neighborhoods, and communities and lack of education and violence, and just all of these bad things, drug use alcoholism. And yet, I've seen people who've come from those situations, and become these amazing, amazing adults. And I've been so lucky to get to know some of them and to count them as my dear friends. And so what is the difference? I mean, does it really make a difference, then, if kids who come from horrible situations can turn out to be amazing, and kids who come from these amazing and positive environments, and they struggle as adults? And as teens? Does it really make a difference? Well, yeah, it still does. Because your opportunity for success, the ability for your kids to grow, increases when they have those involved parents. And then there are these genius kids, right, who are socially and emotionally and spiritually connected. No matter what environment that they've been in, they've been able to make those connections. So we're going to do the best we can. And we're going to move forward. So I don't want anyone judging themselves or being hard on themselves. For I didn't do this right, what did I do wrong? And I'll guarantee you as a person who is the parent of adults, now, and you look back and you think, oh, gosh, I could have done this right. And I could have done that. Right? And that, that I guess that's part of life as well. But you don't want to spend too much time in that muck, right. You want to be able to look back and say, Well, my kids are making this decision. And it's a lot like when they're young. Okay, this is where they are. And so this is where we're going to move on to. And so we'll we'll talk a little more as we listen to some of these great answers. And so the first answer I got is our I'm going to show you today is from Episode Three, I know way back, right. And this was my very first guest episodes one and two I did on my own. Episode Three was my first guest, and it was with Dr. Ted Bennion. He's an orthodontist in Medford, Oregon. And he's a Bennion, which means he's related to me. He is one of my five brothers, but I loved his answer. And so now this is new for me trying to get on the Share and doing it all my own. So I hope you'll be patient. And give me some grace, as I work to share and get all of these answers in with you. So this is Ted's answer. And there,

Dr. Ted Bennion  5:41  
I would say a successful parent is the one who parented today, with love. I said, parenting is an everyday experience. And no matter how many mistakes you've made, how much you've screwed up in the past, if you approached today, and you parented to the best of your ability, and you did it with love, and you're trying to learn and to grow. I think that's a successful parent. And I would say, the next thing is, it's a parent who's willing to, to grow as a parent and take input as a parent for their kids, a parent that's willing to apologize often to their child, when they don't live up to their standards. I used to be worried because I apologize, my kids all the time, I'm sorry, I screwed up, I should have been frustrated there, I should have done a better job with you. And I apologize, and happy like how many times they didn't let me do that. Or they go, that's just an idiot. He doesn't know what he's doing. And yet, once my kids were all grown up, they're like that, I always appreciated that you were that you were trying to do better, that you would come to me, and you weren't afraid to say I didn't do it the way I wanted to do it. I was taught by my mom that you're one day going to be a parent, Ted, when I was little, she would tell me you're going to be a dad. People asked me as a young boy, what do you want to be when you grow up? My answer was always a dad. I mean, that's what I had been taught that that was the highest level of adulting is to be a father. And so I was really excited to do it. And my mom prepared me for that event. And she prepared me by helping me to understand what it would be like she taught me how to be a parent when I was very young. And that helped me to know what her standards were. And if she didn't hold up to them, and then also knew what I wanted to do when I got to be older. So if you're still trying and you're still learning, and you're still loving, you're successful.

DJ Stutz  7:32  
I love those answers. And I think the things that were really important was that Ted talked about parenting today. With love, you may have screwed up yesterday, you may mess up tomorrow. But today, you're going to do the very best, you know how and you're going to act from the heart with love in everything that you do. And so I really love that he brought that up. And then he talked about being willing to learn and grow and take input from other sources. So maybe someone from church or someone, even from work or in the neighborhood, and you see you're watching and you see oh, wow, that that was really good way to handle that. And you move forward with that you learn from it, and you grow from it. And so I really appreciated that he gave that answer and being willing to take input, did you catch it, he said, being willing to take input from your kids, right. And so listen to them, and listen to their frustrations and what they have joy in and whatever, you may not always be able to give the kids everything that they want. Actually, you shouldn't. But you should be able to listen to them in a way that you can hear from their point of view, what they are understanding what they are feeling. And then finding ways to work with that as you parent does doesn't mean you give up on your values, it doesn't mean that you necessarily need to change your boundaries. Although there are times when a child shows that they are particularly skilled at something, or maybe they've grown up and they've shown a certain level of responsibility. And so you're going to extend those boundaries to let them have more autonomy and be able to work on their own. But it is really important to listen to them and pay attention to what's going on, and then have that influence your parenting. I love that. He said it's important to apologize. I'm still apologizing for my stuff. It's funny as they're adults and will say Oh mom, you said this and it really hurt my feelings and I have no recollection of that at all. But if I said that that's horrible. I should never have I'm sorry. Or maybe they interpreted it differently. I've had kids you know walk in and maybe on a part of a conversation or or some one of the times I was talking about a whole different person, not them but somehow they He thought that I was saying something about them. And so, oh, gosh, I'm so sad that you held on to that for so long. And I, I wish we'd have been able to work that out. So be able to apologize from the time that it happens. Be ready to apologize years later, for things that you had no idea that you did. But we want to make sure that they know that they are important to you at any age there. And then the one thing that I really growing up in the same home, same mom, but there were like three different families. So the oldest three, then there were three more. And then Danny came seven years later. And so he's kind of like an only child with a bunch of parents. He's managed to become an amazing person, anyway, but prepare. And I think that's part of our job as a parent to and he brought that up, is to help our children prepare, and that you're going to be a mom someday, you're going to be a dad someday. And so what are some of the things that you're going to need to teach your kids and really prepare them and talk to them about coming from a place of kindness and of love. And I know one thing that my mom really pushed was for us to be really thoughtful of who we were going to have as the other parent. And not just because they're cute, which mine was, or whatever, but that they were people who shared values, who shared faith, who were engaging, and kind and to really have that set up. In fact, we joke around maybe someday I'll do an episode on it. But I had these tests, as I was dating guys. And if they didn't pass a test, it was like, okay, it was nice knowing you. And the more we dated, the more significant I think is the word I would use. So I was looking for someone who treated their own family. Well, I was looking for someone who was good around little kids, you know, and enjoy. I like Ted, he always wanted to be a dad. I always wanted to be a mom, that was my career choice. And so I was looking for people who, how did they handle things when they got angry? How were they when they were driving, because that can tell you a lot about how they're going to treat you and the children and in the lives of you guys. And so I really think that we prepare as people growing up, how are we going to live our adult life as parents, and then we want to prepare our children as well, because we don't really think about doing that daily. But I liked that he brought that up. Okay, so I'm going to share again, we will hope that things go nicely. So the next person that I am going to be sharing is with Dr. Cory Gilbert. And Dr. Gilbert was in Episode 62. If you're interested Oh, that's a great one. And here we are.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  12:57  
Wow, that's a great one. That you got him out of the house. Just kidding.

DJ Stutz  13:03  
Far from wrong? I don't think.

Dr. Corey Gilbert  13:06  
So I think we define it. Did we get a married off? Did they go to college? Do they get a good job? Are they a productive member of society? I think that's the way most of us tend to think that success. I would say no, no, no, no, those are secondary to are they a champion for Christ? Yeah. And so Barna did a credible research study years ago, ironically, at the same time, his daughter was in a treatment center. And he felt like a miserable failure as a dad. But his team said, No, you have to publish this. And he talked about the study he did of single adults who are still following Christ, and what did their parents do, right. And the biggest thing they they came out was exactly exactly about it was that the goal was not to get them into college or to or even the best college or college at all, or to get them married off for all those things. It was is their heart bent towards something bigger than themselves. There's something to fight for. I don't care if you're a teacher, if you're a firefighter, if you're a plumber, or if you're a missionary, we should all be on the same mission of not just punching a clock and doing a job and going home and watching TV and then doing it again the next day. We're so self centered. It should be about in the job I do. I'm serving other people. Yeah. So that's to me about the definition.

DJ Stutz  14:32  
There we go and hear. So again, he had so many things and if you've listened to me for very long, you'll understand that this podcast is one for people who live in faith who love serving a greater being and we may look at it all from different angles, so I've never pushed for one faith over another. But I do believe that when we are a champ be in for Christ, or for God, because I believe that there are faiths who don't believe in Christ that have a lot to offer, the Jewish religion comes to mind, I've met some amazing Muslim people. And so it just depends on where you are. But if you're connected, and your family is connected to something that is bigger than you are, you're going to have a better opportunity, a better success. I loved he said, do they have something to fight for, and I don't mean fisticuffs, or go out and blowing up things. But I do mean, to stand strong to go to the school board meetings to go to the city council meeting, to stand up in kindness for the values that you hold, you don't need to scream and yell and get angry, because that's not the right spirit either. But you can make your point. And when you show your children, you can make your point by staying calm by staying respectful, and have employees throughout difficult situations, you're going to be able to teach them amazing skills that are going to serve them throughout the rest of their life. And he also talked about in the job that you do whether you enjoy your job or not. And let's face it, some jobs are just not that enjoyable. But it's what you have available to you. And it's what's going to put food on the table. Right? And so as you go into your job, are you serving other people within that job? Are you serving customers? Are you helping, too, my husband's an engineer, and so he is serving a ton of people with construction workers and architects, and they're working together as a team with different parts. So maybe someone's doing the electrical engineering, my husband does the mechanical engineering, and they do buildings that are healthcare buildings is what the company does. And so he's not only serving the people who are investing money into it. He's serving his team, and he's serving the people who will come and use that building down the road. Are they serving those people, other people within the neighborhood, we're at church at school, wherever you run into people, there are opportunities. Sometimes it's just that smile or saying hi, right. That is a service. And that I heard the most interesting thing. And it was today actually, I was listening to another podcast because I do that. And they were talking about service and engaging kids and families and service. And one of the ideas I'd never thought of this, and I thought what a great idea is that their family would go and before they would go into the store, they would run around and get shopping carts that weren't put in the little return bins, you know what I'm talking about. And, and they would just take them and put them in the bin so that they wouldn't hurt other cars. A small thing Who would think of that? I never thought of that. But the family really had fun, like making a race of it or seeing who could find the most or whatever. And it would only take them they said they would only spend maybe just one or two minutes doing it. And that was certainly worth the time invested in giving their kids the opportunity to look for chances to be of service enough and kind to other people. So I thought that was a great one. All right, let's go on. Oh, by the way, Dr. Gilbert's episode, if you're wanting to go back and listen to it, that's episode 62. And it's titled, it's the little things. What a great episode that was. I really enjoyed doing it. Now, the next one is Natalie Silverstein. And she has been on my program twice. Now. One of the few I haven't done that very often. First time was on episode 58. And that's called the joy of service. And that's what this clip comes from. But the other time that she was on was episode 77, which was around last Christmas. And we were talking about a Christmas of service. And so that was just a great episode. But this clip is from Episode 58, with Natalie Silverstein, and she lives in New York, and has kids and she actually has her own podcast. And it's called I think it's called small acts, big outcome, something like that. I'm sure if you just look up Natalie Silverstein you'll find her but she only interviews teenagers who are involved in service in their community. It's a fabulous podcast. I hope you'll take the time to listen to some of those episodes. So anyway, here is Natalie's answer

Natalie Silverstein  19:42  
and a half, right? Yeah, we've all had this experience. We all have a vision of what it's going to be like to have a son or a daughter. They come out as the person that they are meant to be. And it's our job to just give them the room, the roots and the wings, right. Just plant the seed and let it grow on its own. And to me successful parenting ultimately means that we raise kind, compassionate, grateful and grounded people who care about others. That's it, because everything else will work itself out. Success in life and business success in relationships, right? Whatever you think that financial success is important, right? Education, all of that will work itself out. If you have raised a person who is grateful for what they have, who is grounded in who they are, and what their values are. And who cares about other people? That's it.

DJ Stutz  20:33  
Wow. You can't say it any better than that, can you? Thanks, DJ, thanks so much. Awesome. So that's the end, she beautiful, she's just such a beautiful person inside and out. But she was so right in so many things. And I love the term, she use the room, the roots and the wings, to just be who they are. They do come pre wired. And if you've had more than one kid, you're going to understand that they do have different personalities. And you can see it almost from the time they're born. Some babies come out screaming and yelling, and they need a lot of attention. Other babies are quiet and easily soothed. And, and so it's just an interesting way that kids come out. And so you're our job, as a parent, as a successful parent, is to get to know who these little personalities are, and what are their strengths, and what are their weaknesses and, and help them to live out that best life with the personality and the interests and the causes that they enjoy. She brought up that if they are kind, compassionate, grateful and grounded, someone who cares about others, as they develop those skills, and those desires, as they grow older, then they're going to be more successful as adults as well. And when they're little. And that's why I do the early childhood. That's why I went into it. Because I started out I was doing a lot of high school work, I loved it loved it. But I saw a lot of foundational principles that were not being met, that just hadn't been developed. And so I recognized that I needed to go back to early childhood. And so that's from birth to eight, and then help them to find these foundational principles and values as they grow, that we can help them to be more successful as they get older. And these are key values that you want to have with them. kindness, compassion, gratitude, right? And being grounded in who they are, and caring about others. And those are just some key ones. And I thought that Natalie did a great place. And she said that if you can do all these things, everything else will fall into place. Well, not all the time, right? We've talked about those kids that just struggle, no matter what a wonderful path that they've been given. They still struggle, but you have, like I said, a much better chance of finding that success. When you're able to give them these foundational skills that Natalie's talked about. She also has a book about simple acts for families. And then she did another one later on about simple acts for teenagers. And then that's where her podcast started was, as she was interviewing teenagers for that book, it just developed into this amazing podcast. So anyway, I will be sure and put the link to that podcast in our show notes. So you'll have a chance to get to it. All right, well, our fourth one that we want to talk about is Hillary Abla, sir, and I forgot to write down her episode number, I'm sorry. But her episode, it was January of 2022. I'll tell you that right now. And it was about international adoptions. So Hillary, they have two kids, she and her husband lovely life life is going on. And they just felt like they needed to adopt internationally. And so they wound up adopting their beautiful little Ava from China. And it's fun because Ava, my grandson, Sylvan are just besties they just love being around each other. And so now they are seven years old, and Ava was three when they got her. And so it's that story. But as we got talking and just recognizing how life is and she understands that sometimes adopting a child outside of birth, even when you adopt a child at birth, there's always issues about abandonment. It was not good enough, all of that stuff. However, I am a big fan being an adoptive mother myself, of women who are willing to understand that life with a family that has been waiting and waiting for a child is much better than terminating that life. Just because you have a baby doesn't mean you need to raise it. And adoption isn't a is an amazing answer. And I have tons of family members who are adopted. And I've seen how they've waited, and waited and waited to have a family when they couldn't have one themselves. So anyway, something to think about. But here we go with Hillary. So here we go.

Hilary Ableser  25:24  
Uh, for me now, it's interesting, because my mind immediately goes to the stage of life that I'm in, which is a relatively young adult. And I think, oh, a successful parent is someone who has a good relationship with their adult children. Because I actually feel like you spend more of your life with adult children than you do with actually little kids. That's such a fleeting window of time. So a successful parent, I think, is maybe someone who their adult children enjoy seeing them and spending time with them. But in addition to that parent who makes their kids feel accepted for anything they want to try or do not just something that is appealing to that parent. And then as a parent of teenagers, someone who is easy to talk to, but isn't too much of a friend, you know. So it also lays the rules down. And my parents were not super friend ish with me. And I had a couple friends as a teenager whose parents were that cool mom. And of course, I was so jealous at the time. And now I look back, I'm like, Oh my gosh. So don't want to be you want to be cool, but not too cool. And yeah, so accepting when they're little, the right amount of a friend as a teenager, and then someone they want to spend time with as an adult, I think. I think that's successful.

DJ Stutz  26:53  
Hillary, I loved her answers. And she brought up some really big, important points. And the one that I really want to start with is, if you're a parent of young kids, which is generally my audience, right, but if you're a parent, you have those little kids. And it just seems like so much work. And it takes so much out of you. It is such a short period of time. And she's right, you're going to spend more time with your children as adults than you will as kids. And in fact, you know, those little years with a temper tantrums, and taking risks and arguing with their siblings, and all of that. It really is, as you look at your whole life, it's such a short period of time. And so if you can kind of keep that in mind, you'll be able to kind of keep your perspective in a better place for that. She also mentioned about accepting things that your kids want to do, that are outside the interests of the parent. And so I have an uncle love my uncle, oh, gosh, he's a great guy. But one of the things was He's Mr. Sports of the world, and football and basketball, are the main sports in the world, right? He really loved that. Well, he had a daughter that was really into soccer. And he was like, soccer wasn't his bag. And she started having some behavior issues and stuff, because you always made it to the football and basketball games of his son, but soccer man boring, I got work to do, also an orthodontist. And so there were some behavior problems, and there was a big blow up. And his daughter said, you never come to my games, you don't even know anything about soccer. And I love soccer. Well, here's the cool thing is that he learned and he wound up going down to the library and checking out all these books about soccer and strategies and all of this. And so then he could go to the games and understand the game and talk to her about it more. And so that also kind of goes back to Ted, my brother, the first one we listened to when he talked about accepting input from your kids, right? And then learning from that and being willing to grow. And that's exactly what he did. And they have a great relationship now. So that's something that is really important is allowing your kids to be involved in things that are outside of your interests. But you're going to learn about them, aren't you? So that you can be a part of it as they love it. And then she said that a parent who is easy to talk to, but isn't their friend that not too much of a friend, right? It's great. You want to be engaged and encouraged with them, but you will still want to be able to put down the law. And in fact, I was just reading. Oh gosh, well, it's probably been a couple months since I read this study. But they were saying that the number one reason that kids don't drink that they'll say no to alcohol is the number one reason is parental disapproval. Yeah. And I'll tell you that someone worked with me. I mean, I never did drink. But I knew as a teenager, if I did that, I didn't want to pay those consequences. All right. And so it's something that worked for me. And it's, again, it's not going to work for everyone. But we do know now with studies that are out there, that the biggest chance for success in that arena is the parents disapproval of that. So you're not being their little pal and friend, but you're saying no, this is the rule. And then you get things figured out from there. And then she said that as they grow older, that you're the right amount of a friend and an adult when they're teenagers. And so once they start getting older, they've got to start making a lot of decisions on their own. And if they turn 18, or whatever, and leave the house, they've had you making all their decisions all their life, right? Yeah, they're going to struggle. And that's a real common way of kids struggling are the ones who were always told what to do. And that also will lead into kids being rebellious, more rebellious, because they feel too confined. So when they're little, we're going to help them look at positive decisions that they can make right? decisions within the confines of our family boundaries and values, and then let them make decisions from there. So yeah, Hillary was great. And I really enjoyed her conversation. All right, our last one. And this is Max and Deanna Maxwell, and they were episode 30. And their episode was how drumming and reading go together. And Dan is the principal at a high school. And Max is a professional musician. And so they put together this amazing program that connects drumming, to learning to read, and it's for little guys, because they're learning about hand eye coordination, tracking all of these things, that drumming helps them do and develop, which leads on to reading. But I loved their answers. Here we go.

Max Maxwell  32:01  
I think a parent has to be a good listener. I think a parent has to love. And I think a parent has to be a great mentor. Those are the three things that I really think if a parent had those three skills, they'd be a pretty darn good parent.

DJ Stutz  32:18  
Excellent. I love that.

Deanna Maxwell  32:20  
You have all those? Ha. Well, I think our kids would say that about you,

Max Maxwell  32:24  
maybe what else? Well, I'm gonna ask them. For Colin,

Deanna Maxwell  32:29  
him tonight. Oh, okay. That's really hard. My gut reaction, what I wanted to say was that they love their kids unconditionally. But I don't know that that's what I want to say. Because there are people that love their kids unconditionally. And that turns out badly. So I think what I would want to say, somebody that is willing to continue to learn about their child. I think so many times, we just assume we know our kids. And we stop asking questions. I would agree with that. We stop learning and we just, we know who they are. And we just continue to parent in the moment. They change so much

Max Maxwell  33:10  
over time, and a lot of the time that goes past, even what our brain can comprehend where they're going sometimes. And so you just really have to be open. Yeah, to what they're going through and how they're dealing with things and how they're growing. Or not growing and support them the best you possibly can.

Deanna Maxwell  33:30  
Yeah, yeah, I'm sticking to that answer. I think as working in a high school, I'm thinking my conversations with these kids now. And I have some kids that will say to me, my mom doesn't know me. My dad doesn't know me. And I think that's where that comes from is that just get to know your kids, ask them questions, love who they are. They're going to grow, they're going to change. Just keep asking. Well, you know, my second answer, the one I was struggling, I couldn't come up between the two is that I found myself saying this a lot to our kids. And I say this a lot as a principal as well. It is not my job for you to like me. But it's my job to make hard decisions that are going to set you up to be successful as an adult. And I think that is another piece of that is, yes, it's important to have that relationship and to get to know your child, but it's just as important to not be scared to make hard decisions that are going to upset them. It's so much easier. It's so much easier to do something to make them happy. But that is not in the end going to help them at all. Right. And I think that that is a very hard thing to learn as a parent, yes. You just want your child to be happy and you think if they're happy, you're doing a good job. And that's not necessarily the case.

DJ Stutz  34:46  
What a great answer. And so true, that it is not our job to make our kids happy. And that one of the things is and I even did did an episode on this early on was that being good is more important than being happy. And I can remember back in my high school days, and I was working at the high school, actually, my kids went to as teacher. And I was heading out of my classroom, and going down to the administrative offices to turn in some paperwork. And I could look over the edge of this stairwell, it was curved stairwell, and I saw a young man that I knew, and he hung out with my kids. And I'm watching him because I know the kids that he's with. And I know that they are not good influences. So I stopped what I was doing, and just watched for a minute he there was no way he could see me from where I was. And I can see him he was very animated as they were walking out and trying to talk them look like engage them or talk them into something. And you know, every high school has a where this kids go to smoke, and I could see they were heading there. And I'm thinking Oh, brother, buddy, what are you doing? And so all and I couldn't hear the words, he was saying I could just see the visual of him doing it. And then all of a sudden I see him go. Just kind of you could see that defeated physical stance. And he turned around, and he walked away in less than. And I thought, wow, I called his mom got mad dude, I'm so proud of him. But it was it was interesting to me that he probably wouldn't have more fun. If you went with this brands and ended at least in the moment, he would have had more fun. But he did the hard thing. He did the good thing, he did the right thing. And he knew when to walk away. And so I just really love that. And I know that that is a hard lesson for parents to learn is that living those values, living a true life, it may be hard in the moment saying no, when your friends want you to go and be mean to another kid in their class. And I see that a lot, man girl syndrome and bully boys. They start early on even before kindergarten. And so you want to teach them about that, to have them practice walking away things to say how to support a child that's being bullied, you can help them with all of that at a very young age. And so anyway, that's our thing. 

And so I hope that you've enjoyed their 100th episode, I hope that it was fun for you. Remember that we are now showing our podcast on YouTube at Little Hearts Academy USA, you can just go to that channel and look it up. Or you can go to Rumble. And that one's under Imperfect Heroes Podcast. And we're starting to show them all. And so I hope that you'll go there and enjoy it. Leave comments, please follow. Give me a rating and review on the podcast. If you do, let me know. And I will send you a digital copy of my new book, which is Living in Kindness, Journey, a Journal and a Workbook. And so it's going to help you look at five different areas of kindness, where you can make goals journal down out when you come up with ideas and it helps you to think about making those five areas of kindness a part of your everyday life. And so I hope that you'll join me in that. And so until next week, let's find joy in parenting. Bye guys!

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