Episode 41: Punishment vs. Discipline with Bailey Olsen

DJ Stutz  0:13  
You're listening to Episode 41 of Imperfect Heroes, Insights Into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world. I'm your host, DJ Stutz and today we are trying something new. I have had Bailey Olson on the podcast before she was in episode eight. And we talked about the secrets behind an amazing first day of school. And I just love talking to Bailey, I better, She's my niece. But she's also an elementary teacher. She is also a mother of two amazing kids in kindergarten and first grade. She is a gymnastics coach, she is an athlete, she is a fitness freak, guess, for lack of a better word. But she is just amazing. And she has great insights into raising kids and teaching kids and noticing those little signs that something needs to be a little bit different. And she works with that with her students and her students families. And so what I want to try and do is have her on occasionally in kind of a co-host format as we talk and enjoy one another. And we're gonna let you in on those conversations. And today, we are talking about the difference between punishment and discipline. And yes, there is a big difference between the two. There's so much to learn. So let's get started.

So welcome to Imperfect Heroes, and you're in for something new today. I have Miss Bailey Olson, I guess it's Mrs. Bailey Olsen. Yes. Want to be clear on that. And she is a mother of two, she is a coach. She's an educator, she's a gymnast, she's, I don't know, a ton of things. I'm gonna let her tell you about it in a second. She's also my niece. And we just have the best conversations. And I love talking with her. So we've had her on before. And I just got thinking I want her on more often. And so we're going to do this kind of co-hosting thing. And it won't be every time. It'll be once in a while. Because I'll have other guests on and stuff. But I want to make sure that I'm checking in with Bailey, and making sure that I'm saying good stuff. So Bailey, why don't you tell us more about you?

Bailey Olsen  3:04  
Yeah, so I'm a mom of two, my kids are currently six and seven. We would love to have more children. But so far, we're going through a whole fertility journey. But other than the most important things, which is parenting, I also teach school. I teach at actually a hybrid program. So they do half of their work from home, and half of their work in person with me. So I am able to educate the parents as well on how to school their kids at home, because that is actually kind of a hard process to go through. And then as was said, I coached gymnastics. And I also did just sign up to be a substitute teacher for my off days. Because right now, I've always wanted to be my kids during kindergarten in first grade. And I've always wanted to be like a parent volunteer. But because of COVID, you can't have parent volunteers. So I learned that if you sign up to be a substitute teacher in my district, you can be in the classrooms, you're able to be there for like classroom parties or things like that. So now I'm also substitute teaching on the days that I don't teach actively. So it's a good little gig.

DJ Stutz  4:12  
You know, it's a great workaround that you came up with. 

Bailey Olsen  4:15  
I gotta figure out some way to be involved.

DJ Stutz  4:17  
Yeah, well, it's funny because out here in Colorado, its been real touch and go in different counties are wide open, and others have been more closed, but they're opening up now. And so I've been able to have parents in my classroom most of the year, we had a little outbreak right after Christmas. And so they were shutting things down. So Monday's Valentine's Day party, I can't have my parents in, which is killing them and me. Yeah. But we'll plan some more things later on and get them in.

Bailey Olsen  4:50  
Yes, it's hard. It's hard because as an educator, you want your parents in there, right? It's so nice to have them in there to be helping you're able to actually get things done and also Have fun with the kids. Whereas just by yourself, it's really hard to do both. So it's hard as an educator, then it's hard as a parent and like, oh, I want to be in there. And as a parent, in an educator, I know that the teachers are so stressed on those days, that our kids school is so good, my kids do go to school full time. So they don't go to the program that I teach at, they just go to public school, because the school is out here, honestly, where we live are really awesome. And they do the cutest things, they do so many fun interactive things. And I'm like, oh, I want to be part of it. And now that I will be fully in the district for substitute teaching that I will be able to go in, and then my kids, teachers will know that I substitute and they can actually just call me directly. They want me to do their classes when they have trainings and whatnot. So should be good. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  5:48  
it should be great. I always felt like with me teaching such young kids kindergarten in them pre K, that I wasn't just educating the kids. I was educating the parents on how to advocate for their child, how to be a part of the classroom, and all of that. And then to when you volunteer, and you can go in, you really get a good feel for how that class runs and what the atmosphere is in the class and who you don't want your child to play with.

Bailey Olsen  6:20  
Yes,

DJ Stutz  6:22  
anyway, but the topic that we were going to converse on today is what's the difference between punishment and discipline? So I know I have my definitions. Where do you go with that?

Bailey Olsen  6:36  
Yeah, so I love reading about child development. And one of my favorite things that I've read was, oh, geez, I should find the book to vote it directly from them. But they said that punishment is a way to control your child punishment is a way to control their behavior. Whereas discipline, teaching your kid discipline is teaching them how to control themselves. So there's punishment, which is saying you did this wrong. Now you have to do this. And this is how it should be. versus saying, Okay, we made a bad decision. Let's see what we can change to make it better for next time. How can we control this? Still, obviously, having consequences but making sure that it makes sense? Yep.

DJ Stutz  7:21  
I like that. So we know that the root of discipline is disciple. And so when I think of disciple, of course, I think of Christ's disciples. And I don't see yelling and screaming, okay, cleanse the temple. But that was the needed thing at that time. And there may be times when you kind of have to cleanse your a little bit. But discipline is meant to teach

Bailey Olsen  7:48  
the right I love the analogy of when your child is little, when they're really little. And they're learning to walk, and they fall down. You don't say, Oh, alright, you fell down. Now you have this consequence, and I can't believe you fell down. How terrible Are you? You know, it's not that when your cute little baby is just barely learning to walk, you're like, took some steps, you focus on those things that they did do. And then you try and help them with balance, like maybe you hold their fingers and help them walk. Or maybe you just let them hold one hand and help them walk. You give them tools so that they can be successful in this rather than saying, Oh, you fell and now that's it. And I think sometimes as our kids are able to communicate more, our first thought process is they're like, immediately adults. And honestly, though, even as an adult, I make dumb choices. I make mistakes all the time. Who me yelling at my kids, right? When I know that I shouldn't yell at them when I know that they're just exhausted. And I yell at them. That's a mistake that I made. And I don't want someone yelling at me. Because I yell at my kids. I don't want someone yelling me over my mistakes. I want them to talk to me and say, hey, you know what? All right, well, you went a good amount of time without yelling at them. And I know you're frustrated, but what can we do instead of yelling? That's gonna be a lot more productive.

DJ Stutz  9:08  
And I think too, if you have that big personality, and that nature, yelling comes easily,

Bailey Olsen  9:18  
I have that yelling actually comes very, very naturally to me, which is the opposite of what I preach and what I stand for. But that is definitely my academy and my husband, I absolutely yell more than he does. He's just more of a gentle human than I am. I've got a big personality, and I'm loud, and I feel my emotions. And I feel I'm big. My emotions are big. And so when I feel upset, I feel upset and it comes out and yelling sometimes.

DJ Stutz  9:43  
Yeah, so And sometimes I'll catch myself yelling, and I have no idea when I started. And so sometimes I have to sit back and say, Wait a minute. Wait, what is going on here? When did that start? And so

Bailey Olsen  9:57  
I think I think we should be we even talk about that for a second. Because, yeah, as parents, we do often make those choices, right where we are all of a sudden yelling, but then it's like, well, I'm already yelling. So I'm going to finish my sentence. And I want to be confident and strong in what I'm saying. And I want my kids to know that I'm mean it and but in your head, I mean, it happens to me. I'm like, oh, shoot, okay. And instead of waiting, some people are good at apologizing later on in the game. But I find for me to help when I find myself, like you said, I'm yelling, and then I'm frustrated. And I can tell and then I'm all of a sudden frustrated myself, I need to like, in the middle of my yelling sentence, stopped my sentence. Take a deep breath. And for me, what often helps is saying to my kids, you guys, I'm really sorry, Mommy is feeling very frustrated right now. I should still not yell at you, though. So I'm sorry that I was yelling, I'm going to try this again. And we're going to try and talk about it more calmly, or honestly, anything with my husband? It's not always just like, sometimes I'm yelling at him. And I'm like, Ah, and then he's yelling at me. And I'm like, Why are you yelling at me? And he's like, you're yelling at me. And then I'm like, Okay, this was break for a minute. This is reboot, we don't need to yell at each other. And I think that is important for kids to see that because they can also learn from that, that, okay, mom's upset. And it shows a mom has feelings when you say, I'm feeling really frustrated right now. And I need to breathe for a minute. And I'm going to try it again. I still shouldn't have acted that way. It shows them, Hey, Mom has feelings. She doesn't always manage her feelings perfectly. But she's always trying to do better. And I think that when they see us practicing those behaviors, they're going to be more likely to put them into practice themselves.

DJ Stutz  11:46  
Right? And that modeling is so important. And so like you said, when you stop, because isn't that what we teach our little guys? Stop? Take a breath. And how many times have I said to a kiddo, whether it's a student or one of my own? I can't understand you right now. You're too upset. So let's take a breath, calm down. And then when you're ready, you can tell me what's wrong, and I can help. But yet, we at we need to model that it's like, Oh, no. So I think that's a big point in making sure that our kids understand. And then also, there's the thing. Part of punishment, I think, is sometimes you're grounded for a week or

Bailey Olsen  12:36  
no screen time, no screen

DJ Stutz  12:39  
time for you. Definitely

Bailey Olsen  12:41  
a punishment for parents as it is for kids taking away that screen time because sometimes you really need it, right? Sometimes you need them. You might I mean, for me, I'm going to be real, I use it, I use screen time as a babysitter for my kids, we go to a doctor's appointment that they have to come with me, I need them to sit and focus on a screen for a minute so that I can get other things done, because otherwise I can't get the things done that I need to and I also limit screen time, but we need to make sure that we're teaching them we're just not just gonna take away screen time for every single thing that you do. Because then it punishes us when we need it. And it doesn't always like okay, you hit your brother. Now you don't have screentime. What is the correlation there? There's no correlation, we needed to learn them

DJ Stutz  13:24  
about the middle line with the screen. Yeah,

Bailey Olsen  13:29  
that's true. Unless you don't, then it would make sense, then you can say, all right, you're gonna hit your brother, your tablet, you're going to not be able to use your tablet. That's the point.

DJ Stutz  13:41  
Yeah, I think that you're right. It needs to correlate and make sense with what they're doing. And sometimes I think we over exaggerate our punishment to to the circumstance. Yeah. Because maybe we're worn out, we're tired, we're hungry, we had a bad day at work, had a bad day at home, the plumbing went out, whatever. And it's easy to overreact, because the kids really can't stand up for themselves very well. When you're

Bailey Olsen  14:08  
the powerful and right, you're the one, you're the one with the power. And so it's easy in that moment, to feel like this is something I can control. Because a lot of times in adulthood, there's a lot of your life that you cannot control, like power outages or not being able to make your bills or just being exhausted or being sick. You know, there are so many things that we cannot control. And I love this quote that I read. Also in a book, I need to just bring my library in here when we record these so that I can look because I get their names confused, but from one of my books that says that your reaction to your child's behaviors is a lot more about you than it does about them and their behavior. So when you get mad and yell and frustrated at them, it's important to self reflect as to why that happened. Because really like yes, you're probably frustrated with their behavior. Absolutely. We get frustrated with our kids behavior constantly. But why else, why else is it because if you know that, that's not going to be the most useful way to discipline them, right? Not punish them. But yelling is not going to be the best way to discipline them. So why did you do it? Probably because you're tired, probably because you're impatient.

DJ Stutz  15:17  
It's that instant gratification society. But I think, too, we have to get our mind in a place where we've decided we're going to discipline we're not going to punish. And I think part of that is I'm learning more about the law of attraction and putting intentions out there kind of a thing. And so for me, there's one thing to say, or even write it down, I'm going to do this, or I'm going to be this or whatever. But then if that's all you do, is just a piece of paper. But if you're constantly reminding yourself or put that paper where you're gonna see it often, how am I doing with my kids today? What have I done for their relationship today? Those kinds of things that you're constantly asking yourself, and you keep putting that in your mind. And then even once you've had a moment with your kiddos, to sit down and kind of review it in your head, how did that go? Did I do okay, what could I have done better? How did my kid react? And I think the biggest step is first deciding this is the parent I want to be, what do I need to do to get there? And so maybe it is reading some books or listening to a really great podcast?

Bailey Olsen  16:39  
Or I think I know of one, do you, I only this one is called imperfect heroes. I don't know if you've heard of it, but

DJ Stutz  16:48  
I'll have to check it out. But even taking a class at the community college or a lot of the elementaries, they'll do that. And whether you have a PTA, or PTO or whatever parent group, but sometimes they'll sponsor a parenting class. But it's funny in doing that. So, you know, when I was in Vegas, I spent 16 years teaching those parenting classes all over the county. And for the most part, the ones who showed up are the ones who were really trying the hardest, not the ones we really wanted to get there. Even if you're doing great, there's no perfect parent. So there's always things to learn. There's

Bailey Olsen  17:29  
always something to know what you said and be refreshed, right refresh a little bit.

DJ Stutz  17:33  
And so what are some of the other resources maybe that you use? As a cute young? Mom?

Bailey Olsen  17:40  
Thank you, my kids. Were just telling me how old I am. Because I'm 33 now and that is so old. Well, they always

DJ Stutz  17:48  
seen me in a while.

Bailey Olsen  17:52  
Some of the resources, and there's obviously not obviously, maybe people don't know about those ones that you had stated, there's always going to be formal classes, there's always going to be really great things like that. I really love to go through books. And my guilty pleasure is scrolling through Instagram, when I'm feeling overwhelmed or overburden, I really love to scroll through Instagram. I just do. And so while it's not the most healthy thing, I've tried to figure out what is the way that I can actually make that into a productive time for me? Can it be a chill time and a productive time at the same time? And the answer that I'm finding is, it can be both. If you go through and you follow people who give really great tips. So here's an example not related to parenting. I love fitness. I love to be physically fit. I'm a gymnastics coach. And I did gymnastics through college, I've been an athlete my whole life. So staying physically fit is actually really important for me. Mostly for my mindset. Hate keeps my mental sanity there. And something in the fitness world that we talk a lot about is making goals. Just what you were talking about just a moment ago, is making goals and keeping goals and how to do that. So I would say first of all, find people on Facebook and Instagram or Tiktok even has Tik Tok gets a bad rap, which I'm not a big tick tock person, but there are really positive things to follow. So if that is your guilty pleasure, find people and accounts to follow that will uplift you and help you grow. And then the other one is how to set goals. There are so many different ways to set goals. You need to have your big end all goal right. So that's like being a better parent is like a big lofty goal, but there's no really way to set and measure that goal. So just as you said before, we have that big lofty goal of be a better parent, maybe your goal is Don't yell at my kids anymore. That is not going to happen overnight. If you're a yeller like me. You're not going to wake up one day and decide you're not going to yell at your kids anymore and then never yell at them again. It doesn't work doesn't work like that. As we get overwhelmed, we're humans. And we revert back to what feels comfortable. So making smaller goals that will lead up to that. So for example, I am going to go the whole day today without yelling at my children. I'm going to try for this one hour. In fact, I remember my grandma grandi, your mom, she used to tell me this thing when I was little, she lived sort of with us. And I remember her telling me that she would set a timer on her oven, when she was baking. And she was going to be perfect, absolutely perfect. For two hours, or for one hour, she was gonna do everything perfect for that time. And even when she got to the end of the day, if she didn't do things perfect, she could think back on that hour and think I did it perfect for that one hour, I did it perfect. And when you start small like that, it starts to become a little bit more a part of you, right. And so if your goal is to not yell, maybe you say, when my kids get home from school, I'm going to set a timer, and I'm not gonna yell at them for that whole hour. Because let me tell you, these kids, at least mine, they come home from school, and they're emotional and exhausted, and, oh, it's, it's a stretch with them. And so it's nice to be able to be like, Okay, I'm my goal, I'm not gonna yell at them. When we get home from school, from the time we go home from school. For us, we often leave to gymnastics or basketball practice, within an hour of being home. So it's like, get home, unpack the backpack, three pack backpacks, for tomorrow, eat a snack, grab a water bottle, change your clothes for sports, and we're out the door, and it is a stressful hour. So if I can, like I, in my head, I'm not doing it for this hour, I'm not going to yell at them. Or when I get my kids up and out the door. Knocking yell at them today. And it will slowly become easier for you. And just keep resetting those goals so that you can continue to get a little better every day and the last fitness tip, maybe not the last because honestly, that's a big part of my life too. Right? Another one that I've thought of is you shouldn't be in an all or nothing mindset, which I am very guilty of, I am like, I am going to be the mom that bakes cookies and is always there for my kids and lets them cry on my shoulder and never yells at them. And that lasts really great for like a couple days. And then I am back to being my hot mess of a self. And then I'm like, nevermind, I give up. No, we're just gonna be a hot mess. This is what we're doing. We're be in the hot mess family. And it's good to embrace like who you are, and always try to be better. But my brain is like, I throw it out the window, my house is either really clean, or really disaster. So it's just, I try really hard to overcome that. And the way that I'm trying that, even as a parent is, Can I do one small thing every day that is going to help me or tomorrow. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing. If you yell at your kids, if you challenge yourself for the whole day to not yell at your kids. And then you yell at your kids. Don't give up on the whole day. Say okay, and then apologize, and then continue to try.

DJ Stutz  22:57  
A couple years ago, I had an aide in my classroom. And if a child had like a really rough 10 minutes or so, screaming, yelling, having their meltdown, she would say oh man, he had such a horrible day. It was a horrible day. And I'd say well, what made it horrible? Oh, well, this, this and this. Well, that lasted 10 minutes. What about the rest of his day. And it was a lot of work trying to get her to come around that you don't need to define the whole day by the worst 10 minutes. That can also go in life. You can't define somebody's life by their worst year or so are their worst behaviors. When there are so many other positive things that you can concentrate on. We need to give ourselves that grace.

Bailey Olsen  23:45  
Yes, we were just talking about this today. Actually, the Olympics just happened. But when this airs, and there's that, oh gosh, see, this is why I need all these notes. I just we talk and then I don't remember the names. I'm terrible at names of books, names of people. There was an awesome Olympic skier. I think it was Michelle, I want to say she's like one of the world's best skiers. And she was disqualified within 10 seconds of two runs back to back completely disqualified because she missed the gate that she was supposed to go through. And she has been understandably devastated by this situation. She's supposed to be this world renowned skier. And here she is up the Olympics. She can't even make it down the mountain. Right. So she has said in multiple interviews, I'm rethinking my whole entire life. I feel like my whole entire life is a mistake. Because here I am on the world's biggest stage and I mess it all up. And so today, full disclosure, I had a whole meltdown with my husband because we were talking about fertility and I was just crying and I was like it's so hard and we're not pregnant yet. We've had these miscarriages and why are we still trying this? It's so much money and we could do so many other things with the money that we're spending and he He said, He quoted this to me this exact story. And he said, you know, it is not about those two days. Yeah, those two days saying, yeah, those two days, it sucks that you're sitting on the Olympic Hill, essentially, and you can't even get down it. Yeah, that's terrible. But is your whole life now a mistake because of two days? No, your whole life is not a mistake because of two days. And as a parent, it's the exact same thing, when we punish our kids and the punishment doesn't have anything to do with what happened. It's okay. Give yourself some grace, and make the necessary changes to make tomorrow just a little bit better. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  25:42  
I love that. So just part of my story is I spent three years working as a dispatcher in a police department.

Bailey Olsen  25:53  
I don't think I knew that about you.

DJ Stutz  25:54  
Well, you weren't born yet. That makes sense. It does. It does. It was right after Shiloh was born. So the three years between Shiloh and then me having rocky so for those three years. And you know, when you're working in the police department, language can get a little colorful. And I was picking up on it. And that's been with me for a lot of my life. And it wasn't like, bad like, I never was an F bomb. dropper. I had three basic words to them you can find in the Bible. I reminded Grandy of that often.

Bailey Olsen  26:34  
Oh, you know what? I lived with? grandi. Okay, she had her own set of words that she

DJ Stutz  26:38  
Oh, yes, she did. Yes. But she's still like to get upset that I had mine. But anyway, I just decided I didn't want that to be a part of me anymore. If I'm going to base my life in joy, and positivity, those words are not joyful, or positive. And so I started marking on what it's like, so many days without a workplace accident. So I wouldn't mark it when I had a slip. And then I'd see how many days I could go without another mark, you know, and you're always trying to beat your own record, or whatever. But even if you had like a day planner, and you have to check it off hour by hour. Like Kirsten ate this morning, that was probably while I was driving to work, you know. And I made it clear till noon.

Bailey Olsen  27:39  
Yes, I actually even have a small suggestion with that. For now, it is something that I have. Alright, we've talked a little bit about gymnastics. And gymnastics drives me crazy, because it's one of the only sports that you start at a perfect score and the judges, they are only looking for your mistakes as all they are looking for. Yep. And for me, it has created quite a negative concept in my brain, I am always looking for my mistakes. So I love the idea of marking it on a calendar, but switching it up a little bit and instead of marking your negative days, instead of marking the days you do Kurz, just flip it and say look at this, I have gone three days with no cursing. And then they're like little happy faces on your calendar. You know, instead of like little black marks, like look at all these that I got, right? And then you can also clearly see the things that you got wrong, right? Because they won't be marked with the happy little smiley face or whatever. But it's still like overall happier feeling, right? Because we're more likely to stick to something if it has a happy feeling. Whereas if we're like, oh my gosh, look, the calendar has seven marks on it. And there are seven days in a week and there's seven marks or, you know, seven marks out of the month even it's like me, I'm looking at all those blackmart instead of looking at the end and being like, okay, look, there's still some blank spots, but I did good for most of the month, I see all these smiling faces, it's gonna make you more likely to stick with it right even potty training. Potty Training is one of my least favorite things to do as a parent. It's my favorite when they are potty trained. But I hate that I would. The business is difficult. It's so hard. It's so gross. It just is. It really grosses me out. So, for something like that, instead of being like, Okay, well, if you can go this many weeks without an accident, we're gonna mark your accidents. Say, alright, we're gonna see how many days every day you don't have an accident. We're gonna put a sticker on this chart. We're gonna put a big, fat happy face right there for you to see in your room. And for every day you get one you can when you get so many of them you can earn a treat or a toy or a special outing with mom or whatever.

DJ Stutz  29:52  
I love that and that's so true. It's funny, I was just working with a dad. His wife travels a lot with her work so he He's the one that's home with the kids most of the time, and they're struggling with their three year old getting close to four, who is struggling with potty training. So it's like, Ah, come help me, you know, one of my bits of advice was, maybe she's not ready. Or maybe when you're trying too hard, that's a bit of control that she can have. Maybe it's she's constipated. And kids, when they're potty training, will often hold it so much that they'll constipate themselves. And so there's a ton of things to do. But it's funny how we were talking about how we never yell at our kids when we're trying to encourage them to walk. And we're so proud of every milestone, no matter how small, maybe it's a mile pebble that they pass, how quickly by the time we're potty training them. Were getting upset with them wear your

Bailey Olsen  30:57  
pants, I'm done. grossed out and tired. That's why we're so excited to see them walk. But then when they're peeing their pants, it's all about our own emotion.

DJ Stutz  31:07  
Right? And so if we can recognize that, and we can say, wait a minute, is this about me? Or is this about them? You know what I mean? Yeah. But it's funny how fast that change takes place.

Bailey Olsen  31:22  
Yes, it's like a few months, I swear. Yeah. It's it really is like, maybe even less than a year. My daughter she was a late Walker, though. But she didn't walk till she was 15 months. And she was potty trained. Before she was two. So it really was only a few months that by the time that I'm like, yay. Oh, why

DJ Stutz  31:41  
did you do that? Yeah. I had thing. So with Candice, my oldest and Shiloh my second. The both was such a piece of cake to potty train. Candace was trained day and night at 18 months. I know she would come in, you could set the clock by it. She would come in every night at midnight. Wake me up and tell me she had to go potty. And I knew it was

Bailey Olsen  32:06  
that kids were waking up. Your kids are waking up to say they had to go potty

DJ Stutz  32:09  
Candace did. And then Shiloh, he took another three months for nighttime training. But daytime 18 months he was solid. So here I'm thinking, I in the best mom ever. I have this potty training thing down. I'm so good. And then came Rocky, who actually wound up being my easiest child to raise. And my most difficult to body drain. And I'm pregnant with Christian. And she's almost like right at three. And I did not want to have to in diapers. So then I made it about me. I put this arbitrary deadline. And we had a go. Let me tell you,

Bailey Olsen  32:55  
I believe that and doing that when you have another baby is almost like backwards at times because then they have this big adjustment. So it's good to have things on our timing right? We're humans, we can just completely disregard ourselves. 100% But it's got to be an ebb and flow. Both kids and the the parent we have to find a balance for both of us.

DJ Stutz  33:15  
Yeah. Noah was my easiest to potty train. Because we didn't get her till she was 12.

She She was she'll tell people I was 12 years overdue.

Bailey Olsen  33:32  
That's a good point. I like it. I like the way you describe adoption. I like it a lot.

DJ Stutz  33:39  
Yeah. Well, and she is adorable. Yes, yeah. So I think that when we get down to it, my thing is, there's two things I think we need to look at as we're disciplining versus punishment with our kids, right? Number one, is this helping or hurting my relationship with my child. And that doesn't mean that my child is going to walk all over me. Because I don't want to hurt the relationship. But I can stand strong without yelling. And

Bailey Olsen  34:10  
and not just immediately right, there are moments, for example, homeschooling, there are moments where I'm like, oh, man, this is hard. Right now my kid is crying in their room yelling about how terrible of a mom I am and how mean I am. But I also need them to do school. So where is the balance? Because what's the term myopic where you're only looking at the now and you're just so close minded? Because you only see this moment right now. So keep in mind right now or later, either both of those things. Is this going to hurt my child and my relationship or is it going to benefit us in the long run and if it's going to benefit you in the long run? Make sure you do it in a way that also doesn't hurt you now, right?

DJ Stutz  34:57  
Right. You know, finding times to even take brakes or to use a different approach. So if you've got a little boy, that's crazy about cars, I've got one of my classes here, everything is about cars. And so we do like our letters around cars, we'll put a letter on the top of what do they like Matchbox cars? Yeah, or how so we'll put a letter on top and to go and get the car with the letter. And he'll do that. But if I just tried to do letters, forget about it. Right? So it's trying to be that creative. But just make sure that the way you're talking to them, even when you need to lay down the law, you're doing it in a kind manner? Because they're going to learn more from you then anyway. Yeah, if you're getting all fussy and mean with them, they're gonna turn you off or be afraid of

Bailey Olsen  35:57  
you. Yes, I completely agree. In fact, I think it would maybe be good. If we have a few minutes to go over that of role playing, I guess of like examples of what to say how to discipline versus punish your child.

DJ Stutz  36:11  
Mm hmm. That'd be great.

Bailey Olsen  36:12  
So one of the things that I have written down here, these are real life experiences, that I have learned from my own mistakes. So my kids, often after they've had screentime, for a while, they often get pretty grumpy. And I've noticed this as a trend. All of my friends do the same thing. Oh, I give them time to watch a movie. And then after they watch the movie, they treat me like, I'm the worst mom ever. Because I don't know why. But they're so grumpy. And I've been thinking a lot about this. And a lot of times, I will say to my kids, okay, fine, no more screens, then you're being mean. So you get no screen time tomorrow. And then they're just Oh, man. It's a big old argument. And it might. And so what I've learned through trial and error, is that it really helps for me to actually speak with my kids about it. Like they are adults. Now my kids are getting to the point that they actually understand me a lot more. But I started this when they were much smaller, like, honestly, around, probably between three and four is when I really started sitting down. And I could have done it earlier. But again, trial and error, we I was working through it,

DJ Stutz  37:20  
right? Between three and four is pretty standard for them to start having those kinds of conversations.

Bailey Olsen  37:27  
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so I would sit down and say, I'm noticing that you're feeling really upset and grumpy right now. And I'm seeing that you are feeling upset and grumpy after watching screentime. And I don't want you to feel upset and grumpy. So tomorrow, we're going to try not having any screentime. And we're going to see if that helps you feel a little bit more happy. And the kid will still throw a tantrum and be sad and say, I'll be happy to watch a movie. And I'll be happy. And I will say, Okay, I believe you. But we're going to take a break anyways, just to help your brain so that it feel a little bit happier. And we can try again in a couple of days. But right now, your actions are showing me that this is making you grumpy, then, now, it's very much like my kids will come to me and they'll be like mom, and we watch a show. I promise we won't be mad afterwards. And then they finish their show. And they immediately come to me and say, usually the time that they are doing screen time is when I'm making dinner, because it's just easier to have them baby's out. While I'm making dinner. I'll hear the show in and I'll say Okay, time to turn the TV off. And they come running in and they'll say, Mom, how can we help with dinner. And usually, it's just setting the plates and all of that stuff. And I will say that came from some tantrums by me. You guys finished watching you want to watch another show. I'm over here doing everything trying to get dinner. And I got to get the table said. And so I've learned I need to ask them for help. And so I'm like, Okay, you can watch your show. And these be happy afterwards. And then after if they are grumpy, I'm able to say, Hey, I'm noticing that you're grumpy. Do we need to take another break from screentime? You tell me. And then it gives them a second to be like, Oh, I don't want to break from that. I don't want to be told no. Okay, I'm gonna change my behavior and they can adjust it right in that moment without it being a threat, right saying you better stop or you're gonna lose screen time. It puts it on back to what I said at the beginning. Instead of controlling their behavior, teaching them to control their behavior, right saying you're showing me that you probably need a break from screentime. Is that true? No, it's not true. Okay, so what can you do to show me that you don't need a break from that? Yeah,

DJ Stutz  39:35  
I really liked that. And one of the things that you said too, you mentioned talking to them even before the screentime occurs and just saying, Okay, now remember, when you are upset after the movie, I don't want you to be upset. So maybe we'll watch and make sure how you're going to be but I like the way that you're talking to them, calmly setting it up and it's It doesn't matter whether they stay calm or not. Really the only person you can totally control is you.

Bailey Olsen  40:06  
Yeah, most of them, I'm in control myself. Yeah.

DJ Stutz  40:09  
Well, and there's that too. But if you're able to just stay calm, you're laying down the lot. You're not giving it to them. Right. But they still remember that you talk to them in a respectful manner, you stage your ground, and then you can move forward. And I really like the idea of having that conversation even before screentime starts, so that they are setting the expectation. And we're moving on.

Bailey Olsen  40:39  
Yes, actually, maybe you have some insight, I wrote down a couple of scenarios that maybe we could talk about. So another one that I have written down here that I want to get your insight more on, is, your kids talking back to you, your kids are being sassy and mouthing up. If you want, you can choose a specific situation. But mostly just like any situation, your kids are mouthing back to you when they're just talking so mean to you. Because that for me, that's when I mostly lose control. That's what I've been trying to like read about and study about, how do I keep my cool because when they're talking mean to me, I am like, you don't talk to me like that. Go to your room. Right? Oh, I know that I want to handle that better. So what would be some thoughts that you had on

DJ Stutz  41:22  
that? Well, I could tell you what I did. Or I could tell you what I've learned to do. Say, then they're a little bit different. But what I've learned to do with my students, and when they get mad, it was funny because this happened not too long ago, my classroom. So the kids have center time, they learn through play kind of thing. And this class is all boys 100%

Bailey Olsen  41:53  
Very exciting and also challenging,

DJ Stutz  41:55  
very exciting and also challenging. Well, it helps me that I had five brothers growing up, and I understand probably a little more than some. But it doesn't matter what theme we were on. They all wanted to play police. We had to teach them police don't get to beat up people. We did a few facetimes with my son Christian who is a police officer. And they were really excited about that. So I said, when you come back after the weekend, all the police stuff is going to be gone. Because I want to see you playing others things. And all you're playing right now is police. And we were on a forest theme is that if you want to be a ranger, that's fine. And Rangers are kind of the police of the animals. And this is what they do. But we're not gonna do cops. And this one little boy. He just started yelling at me. That's that's my favorite thing. And I mean, he was going on and on. And was funny watching the other boys. Their eyes got big as saucers. It's like, oh, do I just kind of let them yo. And then when he stopped? I said, so does yelling at me. Make me change my mind. Yes, you better listen. And then one of the other boys said, No, she doesn't like it when you yell louder. So I said, this is the way it's going to be. And I understand that you're sad. And the way you talk to me isn't going to change. If you yell at me. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it's 100% I will not change my mind. And if you can find a kind way to talk to me, we can come up with some compromises. But if you start yelling at me and treating me badly, then that's it's not gonna work. He did Calm down, and all the police stuff was gone. And it's still gone.

Bailey Olsen  44:12  
I like how you said, I'm sorry, it makes you sad. That's something I always try to say. Like when they're mouthing back to me. Usually it's about some sort of consequence or something. Like I don't want to get my things together. I told them they had to finish their lunches. They didn't eat at school, you have to finish them when you come home. Your body needs food. They were so upset. So I tried to say to them, I'm sorry. It makes you feel upset. I'm sorry that it's hard. It is hard. It's hard because when you come home you want to play, but we do have to eat our food. I'm sorry, that makes you so sad. I also am not okay with you yelling at me yelling at me is not going to make it better. I don't know. It's a hard one. It's a tricky one.

DJ Stutz  44:51  
Yeah. Well, and it's nothing that's going to again like anything it's not going to change overnight, right? Although I have noticed a change in my little guy at he'll come up, Miss DJ, can I please, whatever. And so he's learning. But that's the process. So if they yell at you again, same thing. And remember last time you yelled at me, how did that work for you? And say yelling at me is not the way to talk. But then conversely, US yelling at them. And so you might find your kids as they get older, and a little more adept at social skills, they might be starting to use that language on you can't wait for

Bailey Olsen  45:35  
that. I got it. My daughter is like, she's an adult. And so she does often, like we sat down as goals, we were actually reading our scriptures. And we sat down and had some goals, we were talking about them. And I told them that one of my goals was to not yell, even when I was frustrated, to not yell at them. And then maybe an hour later, she wouldn't go to bed. And I said, You better not come out of that room a single more time. And then she's like, Well, you said, your goal was not to yell at us. So you failed. So I can already see her turning tables on me. So yes, I want to try and keep that as like, okay. And if you're gonna yell at me, finding a consequence, that is, if you're going to yell at me, I'm not going to allow you to yell at me, instead of saying, Go to your room, I might say something like, if you're going to yell, I am not going to let you yell at me. It's okay for yourself frustrated, you get one more chance to speak to me calmly. And if we can't speak calmly, we're going to take five minute break, to let ourselves Calm down, and then we'll try again in five minutes in your room to calm down for five minutes. So essentially sending them to their room. But in a way, that is, like we said to me getting giving them tools and opportunities to

DJ Stutz  46:51  
another thing you could do though, too, is even give them a choice. Sometimes they need to be alone to be able to calm down. Other times, they do want to be in your vicinity. And so to say, we can calm down, right? You go to your calming place, I'll go to my calming place. And we'll work it out. Or we can just sit here quietly and have hugs while we take a breath and calm down. And then when we're ready to talk again, we can talk which one do you want to do? So now you're giving them a little more control. But you're giving them options that are acceptable?

Bailey Olsen  47:26  
Right? Yeah, that's a really good point. I love that I love the idea of giving them choices and options. So they feel in control. I'm not super great at that, like, I'm the moment that's their clothes out the night before for them. I'm the mom that they even asked me this, how bad is they asked me mom does this match before they go? Because if I for some reason don't set their clothes out. They're like, I don't know what to wear. And I'm like, okay, they've got to be more in control of their lives. They need to wear what they like, but I like that a lot. Well, thank

DJ Stutz  47:58  
you. So I think we're coming up on our time, we're having so much fun. And so for our listeners, we're gonna have Bailey back more often, and has some of these great conversations on topics. But I would really love for you to give us a five star rating and a review. And that really helps our podcast grow. It makes a huge difference when we can get those ratings and reviews and follows. And there's one thing you know, I've been talking a little bit about, I have the coaching opportunities, you can either go with a group coaching, or one on one coaching. And Bailey, you were part of one of those sessions with group coaching. Can you give any insight on what they will get out of it?

Bailey Olsen  48:45  
Yeah, absolutely. Honestly, my very favorite piece of that was the way that there was always just really good conversations, usually the support of a community, right, the people that were in that group were in Michigan, Nevada, Colorado, Utah, they were all over the place in this online group. And yet, so many of us who had kids around the same ages, were going through the exact same things in parenthood. And it was so great the way that you were able to ask really great questions and give counsel, but allow everybody else still share their experiences. Oh, I'm frustrated with this. What would you do in this situation? Oh, I did think of that hearing of other parents who are in that situation and really helped me to feel not so alone, right. Oh, I really, I

DJ Stutz  49:39  
Oh, thank you. I'll tell you of the two I really do enjoy the group coaching more just because of that because of the conversations. And not only did you guys share your problems, but what was really fun as you were sharing some of the things that you tried that work. And so it wasn't all me just saying, Oh, this is what you do or whatever. But some people were saying, Oh yeah, we tried that, or we had that same problem. And I tried this and it was really helpful. And so I just love that community feeling that comes up. So if you're interested, you can always go to the website, www.littleheartsacademyusa.com. And then you can scroll down and you'll find the Cicerone society is the group coaching. And then you'll see one that says one on one. And you can sign up and we'll get you with a group that works with your time and maybe the age ranges of your kids. And we can go from there. So I guess those are the two things is just follow us. Leave a rating and review. And I'd love to hear what you think if you like this format of me and Bailey being co-host. I really enjoy it because I just really enjoyed talking with Bailey and

Bailey Olsen  50:53  
I feel so lucky to be on it. So it's perfect. Oh, yay.

DJ Stutz  50:57  
All right. Well, thanks so much. And we will see y'all next week. So until then, let's find joy in parenting.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai