Raising Heroes: Helping Kids Choose Their Heroes & Become One Themselves with Lenora Edwards Episode 189

DJ Stutz  0:14  

You're listening to Imperfect Heroes: Insights into Parenting, the perfect podcast for imperfect parents looking to find joy in their experience of raising children in an imperfect world, and I'm your host, DJ Stutz.

Welcome everybody, and thank you for choosing to spend the next few minutes here with us at Imperfect Heroes. And today, we are continuing on with our thoughts on how kids develop their moral morality, moral development of children. And we've got Lenora Edwards back here, and Lenora, we're so thrilled to have you. You're going to be a recurring guest this year. And I had Bailey Olson a couple of years ago and she did that for a while, and also the oldest of seven, but a generation apart from us, and now she's a mommy. So it's fun to have someone that I can have some continuing conversations and build on that, and that's great.  Before we get started, though, I want everyone to stop 'n think about joining our mailing list for our newsletter. So Roman is Bigger and I love Lenora, if you if you're watching on YouTube or on Rumble, Lenora has got my Roman is Bigger book behind her. Yay. I love it. Our next book is coming out in the next few weeks, and it is called Oscar's True Friends, and it's a story about learning how to just be happy with who you are. You don't have to be the prettiest or the fanciest or the fastest or the smartest, everyone has their own gifts that they can bring to the table, and so that's what that fun story is about. And if you get the newsletter, you're going to get all the updates about when that book is available. You're going to get updates on the podcast and our topics and episodes. You're also going to get some extra tidbits on parenting and development and different aspects that you're not going to be able to get anywhere else. It is free, so be sure and join us for that. All right, let's jump in. Lenora, I'm so glad to have you back again.

Lenora Edwards  2:34  

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited, and I love being in such great company with you and the other people that you had mentioned how fantastic to keep sharing insights and lessons that we learned about the day, the month, the year. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  2:48  

Yeah. It's a fun thing. It's an amazing thing. You know, we've been talking, there's so many topics and things that we get involved with with our kids, and it's really good for us, and that's why I'm spending a whole year on this, but it's really good for us to take some time and look at how our kids develop. It can be academically or physically, spiritually, socially, emotionally, but now they're finding with the research that is coming out right now, they're starting to do a lot of research on how kids develop morally and making that a separate thing. So moral development, to me, is connected, and we're finding with the research as well, that it is connected to all different aspects of their life. But if we have that in our head, as parents as we're at this point. How can I connect this to their version, their insights into what is right or wrong? How do we accept people? How do we help people? There's actually they're finding that there's a process of development, and so that's kind of exciting to start to understand. So today though, Lenora and I were talking about, what are some of the fun things that we want to talk about? And we were talking about how kids discover or identify or choose a hero who is a hero in their lives. And so oftentimes, you know, when I'm working with the little guys, Spider Man and Batman and Hulk and all of these guys and that, nothing wrong with that. It's fun for them to have that, and we're going to talk a little bit about that. But it also makes me stop and think, and Lenora, you and I were both talking about how they find heroes in their everyday life. Who is it that's in their family? Who is it that's at their school or or on in the neighborhood or whatever? And how do they identify that? What draws them to that person and makes that person a hero to you, the child?

Lenora Edwards  4:55  

There are so many interesting pieces to this, especially because naturally, when children are grown. Up they're observing their parents, their guardians, and who they're gravitating toward. So heroes often come from who their adult looks to, as somebody as important. You know, we often see, especially when it comes to speech pathology, when we're in structured tasks helping kids understand labels and jobs. Who people are, we get into the policemen and the firefighters and their heroes and what makes that person a hero to them? That's definitely where we start the conversation as a speech pathologist, but it really starts in the home when adults are sharing the topics that they naturally go through throughout their day, whether it's a celebrity or whether it is somebody at the grocery store or somebody local. There's so many conversations that are occurring and we're using so much language to talk about that person, it's so important to stop and to share with people why that person is important to them, or what they helped them do, or how they made them feel, and pointing out these qualities. And I absolutely think that if you're listening to this podcast, and podcasts such as DJ and the amazing things that she shares, it's because you are wanting a deeper understanding. You're wanting another way to communicate to your child or to the children that you're with, and that's a beautiful thing. So having these conversations as well the person at the grocery store, we don't necessarily indicate to people that they're a hero, but if they were providing help in a certain way, that can be a heroic quality to people. If somebody was walking somebody, an elderly person, across the way of the parking lot and help them put their groceries in the car or in the car, that could be a hero like quality. And it's important to point that out, because these are everyday things that we see, and we can so quickly just brush them aside as, oh, they're just helping really quickly. Wow, how kind of that person to pause to take their time to help this person? That's a great quality of somebody who's a hero and navigating the world and pointing things out like that can be so helpful for children.

DJ Stutz  7:17  

Yeah, and I think too, that when we even at very young ages, I mean, even two three, and say, Look what that person just did. That's a heroic thing to do, and to help them understand that only one perfect person ever right. And so even our heroes, our biggest heroes, will have flaws, and that we don't need to let that hurt our vision of humanity. We were talking even just a little bit ago about how sometimes people will take those weaknesses that they have and turn them into heroic strengths, very much. So, yeah, there's even biblical things that I will make weak things strong, right? Can even bring it back to that. But you know, someone being shy, or someone who can't sing, or someone who is maybe has a physical disability and is struggling to accomplish some things, but that physical disability can lead them into perseverance and not giving up, and being thoughtful about other people who are struggling as well, and being patient with them and all of these things, and so we can let those weaknesses even build us a very heroic nature.

Lenora Edwards  8:30  

Very much so. And this was a quality that I had from very young. I was often looking for the positive and what people for me, this was very helpful. It just came very naturally for me. And it's not that I didn't see the negative, it's just that I chose to find the beauty in it, find the positive in it, frame it in a different way. And unfortunately, this was actually and this is why I always say be careful, not just what you're saying, yes, our words matter, but really how you're saying it, people used to, quite literally shame me, and they would say things like, literally, you're just wearing rose colored glasses, or you just can't see what I see, and quite literally put me down, or the perspective that I had now, what I would encourage people to do, especially if it's with your little ones, if things are going on in their life and they're not feeling great about it. For example, I had one little boy that I was spending time with at one point, and he and I were working from a speech standpoint, and he was talking about a family, but his definition of family was different than my definition of family. He said I didn't have a family because he was adopted and he was in foster care, or somewhere in the transition of it or something, and he felt familyless. And as I was framing that for him, as I was sharing a new perspective of that for him, we get the opportunity as adults, and we get the opportunity to really listen to children and hear what they're saying, and also. To allow them the space and the safety to express how they're feeling, but also gently frame it in a different perspective, so that they can understand that they're in one place and they feel sad, they fit, they feel hopeless, they don't feel like they have a family, they don't feel loved, and gently guide them to a different perspective that says you are loved. Look at the people around you. You get to be taken care of by so many people, because other people are coming in to show you how important you are, how much you matter. And now we're being guided to your new forever family, or whatever wording that I was using at the time, but being able to take him from that space where he felt lonely, he felt sad, he felt hurt, he felt that he wasn't understood, and I didn't say to him, you don't know what you're talking about. You're not paying attention. But never say that to a child, especially even just listening to the tone. I'm sure everybody was like, you just get this automatic ick when you can hear them and then gently shift their perspective. That can be really, really helpful, because then we even get to say it now applied to our conversation of heroes. Wow, look how loved you are having heroes of all sorts come in to help you, to help you, stand on the shoulder of giants, so that you get to also help other people and show them how they can be cared about and loved, and that's a beautiful quality, and pointing that out, and even especially when we're on the topic of heroes, shifting it back to how that could be a hero like quality, there are plenty of superheroes, if we want to talk about superheroes that might have been family, what they considered family less at the time. I believe, look at Batman, even pointing out other people. Oh, well, you know, I have a friend who's a fireman, and he didn't have a family at one point, but now he's a fireman, and now he goes to help other families, but he'd made his own family in the firehouse, pointing things out, allowing ourselves to be really flexible in our thinking and start to shift our own definitions, ultimately helps that child see and feel things in a different way.

DJ Stutz  12:04  

And I think too, as an adult, we need to be super, super patient with whether it's our own children or neighborhood children or kids in the classroom, whatever, that very often we don't know the whole story, even our own kids, you know, something happened at school, and they're embarrassed about it or whatever, and they're not sharing. That's a part of their life that you may not know about, but that is going to affect how they react to their sister saying something very innocuous, but they're going to take offense to it real quickly, because other things that happen during the day. It doesn't mean that we have to excuse or should excuse, and please don't excuse rude behavior or lashing out. But then just being able to say, hey, hey, hey, that's not okay. Where's this coming from, or getting to ask some questions, you may not get all those answers right away, and in fact, maybe a couple of days later, you might pick up on a comment your child makes, and it's like, oh, wait, what? Wait, this is starting to make some sense. And then you can bring in your insight, maybe ask some other questions, because you've got more background with what's going on. And so please, please, please, parents, don't think that I'm saying, Oh, they washed out their sister, there must have been something. We're not going to excuse bad behavior, but we are going to work with them and say this is not acceptable. But let's talk about what's going on and how things are going and I think too, as we look at maybe someone in the neighborhood one time, I had surgery on my back, and I was down for six weeks. I couldn't even get out of bed, some kind of stressful and this lady across the street, she heard about my she was like, across the street and down a few houses, and she knew I had a dog that I walked all the time, and so she came and said, Hey, can I walk your dog while you're down to me, that's heroic. That was being a hero for my life. And so when we look at opportunities, and we share those opportunities with our kiddos, and then say, You know what, you were just a hero. That was heroic, what you did, and really pointing it out to them. Another thing too is, I think kids well and adults too. Let's face it, that when our quote, unquote hero does something that is disillusioning. You know, I expected more of you. I expected this of you, or whatever. Once again, we don't know what brought them to that reaction and and does that one thing negate all the good that they've done? I feel like we're in this cancel culture right now, and with social media being what it is, and we can get into social media and heroes here as well in just a minute or so, but we're in this place in our society. I hope we're going through some. Changes in that where someone does something you know, stupid or unexpected or whatever, and we don't give them anywhere near the grace that we would hope to receive. And I say not if, but I say when we do stupid things ourselves, and how do we teach that to our children, that, yeah, we don't like this part of something that happened. I don't know why it happened, but probably isn't the best way. But that doesn't change that they still landed a plane in the Hudson. It saved all of these people from a plane crash, but we're so anxious to cancel and be so judgmental.

Lenora Edwards  15:42

You just took the words right out of my mouth if we said something like I expected more from you, it can be very harsh to a young mind, and they can feel that coming toward them. And we naturally don't want to be embarrassed, we naturally don't want to be judged. We naturally will work to hide whatever behavior it is. So when as adults, we can get really curious, and rather than writing somebody off as they're just a bad kid, they just can't listen whatever it is, we can get really curious and go, what else is going on there? Something else is going on there. One of my favorite stories that I don't know if you've ever heard of Dr Wayne Dyer, and he was a phenomenal speaker. He passed away a couple of years ago, and he was on PBS, and I just the man was a fantastic storyteller and teacher and writer and speaker, and he tells the story, and it's called the Teddy Stoddard story. I don't know if I pronounce the last name, either way, if you go to Google or go to YouTube and write in Wayne Dyer, the Teddy story, this is such a well worth it, I think tremendous of your life.

Put it in our show notes.

Lenora Edwards 16:52  

It's phenomenal and even in this story, he talks about teachers are starting to write off the student. He started out, oh, he was so curious. He was great. He was kindergarten, doing good, doing good. And then, oh, he just is disengaged. Oh, he doesn't care. Oh, he's withdrawn. And He now gets to another grade, and this teacher is looking through these report cards, and she starts to get a little bit curious. And I'm not going to spoil the rest of the story, but the fact that she showed curiosity over judgment changes the entire perspective. And two children, when you are that person, that quote, unquote, safe person, and when I say safe, it's not they get away with anything, and they can throw a chair across the room, and you don't bat an eye. It's that you're able to see them in the space of something else is going on, and I want to connect with them. I'm not here to judge them. I'm not here to shame them. I can absolutely tell them, Okay, well, we're not going to throw chairs. And I can bring in that firmness, that that container that they need. But also, what else is going on? What do you want to talk about? And then that gentleness that is being able to not only have emotional state control, but truly help that other individual who is feeling quite out of control feel much safer. And when we have one person, and gosh, I hope we have more than one person in our life, it truly changes that individual's entire experience of life. And when we can offer that as parents, as guardians, as teachers, as speech therapists, whichever, however, you show up in a child's life, it might be exactly what they need at that moment, but it might also be what they need all the time, and they carry that memory. They carry that moment with you forward in life, of which is why you're going to want to go back and hear the Teddy story, but that is being able to point out to somebody you know, oh, your teacher said that you were having a really hard day. How did that teacher help you? Or did that teacher not listen? Okay, so in your heroic qualities that you really like, what's something special that stands out? Oh, well, I really like a hero that listens. I really like a hero that talks to me and can hear me. That's a great thing. And then you point out I love that you're telling me, that you want to talk to me, and I love that I'm listening to you. Do you feel like I'm a good hero right now for you? Yeah, I do great. Boom. We have that connection. We have that light up and things make much more sense to them, and it's a building block. No child is ever going to be perfect right out the door, but it's a building block to building their character. And then as they go throughout life, they get to make those moral decisions, am I being helpful? Am I being a good listener? Am I standing up for myself and making sure that I'm heard and that somebody isn't walking all over me. Am I helping and protecting where I can? Did I help my friend out on the playground and protect them from another bully? Because I was strong enough to stand up and I was strong enough to use my voice. Those are great qualities and great lessons. That we want to teach our children, and whether we point them out in a book or we point them out in real life or we tell stories, we can always, always, always keep helping our children have a better understanding every step of the way.

DJ Stutz  20:14  

Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. And I think too, when we teach our children how to be a friend to someone who's having a problem, who's having a struggle. So two days a week, I'm helping out at school district with some kids who have behavioral issues. And this one classroom, it's a second grade classroom, and it is full of heroes, absolutely full of heroic kids. So we've got a couple of kids. One can be violent, although he hasn't been for a long time. We're making so much progress. And the other one has some learning disabilities and thinks of himself. I'm dumb. I can't do this. I'm just and he's just dyslexic, that's all. But he's a fun, fun, good kid. But it's funny how the other kids in the class, like I have seen classes where the other kids will see fresh blood, you know, I mean, and zoom and just make their life even worse. This classroom is full of heroes, where if one of these boys is having a hard time and they like they've shut down, they've just shut down. Yeah, and it's time to go get a book or to go, here you go. I got this for you. They'll bring it to them, or what at the other day, I walked in. The class had already started. I helped some other kids first thing in the morning, and then I'll go into this classroom. And so while I've been without the other kids, one of the boys, the one that more dyslexic issues, he worked really hard. He just chose and tried really hard to try and get things done. And when I walked in there, like this, DJ, you should see Joe. He worked hard. He finished his whole paper. And they know, both these boys have sticker charts, so if they finish their work, that you know, if they finish a page, they get a sticker. And one of the kids said, I think that is sticker worthy second grade. I'm just like, You guys are such good friends. Like you are amazing. And the whole class is like that. And one of the little boys, he's been known to toss tables, throw chairs, whatever, but now he's getting so much better. We have an ad an issue like that in Gosh, it's been over a month now since before the Christmas break, and the other kids are like, good job. You're like, they noticed. They noticed that he's made improvements, and they're making comments on the improvement. Or I noticed when one of the boys is just a really good artist, and that's, can you draw this picture for me? You are so good, you're such a good artist. Will you draw this for me? And I don't know how I've seen classes where they'll have a few kids that'll be like that for children who are struggling. This is the first time I've seen an entire class where everybody is, you know, and they all have their own little quirks, and they're noisy second graders, and they do silly second grader stuff, but even when there's a hard time, they will be patient. And so kids are heroes. At a very early age, they have that capability.

Lenora Edwards  23:23  

I think that's such a beautiful testament to how you and the teachers run that classroom, because those children could not do that if it was not modeled for them, even as maybe some of the other ones picked it up, because they modeled the teacher's behavior and the teachers, excuse me, yourself included, reinforced. Thank you so much. That was so nice of you. They saw it. And then it starts to pick up more and more, which ultimately, you know what?

DJ Stutz  23:49  

That's heroic. That's what you're Yeah. You know, yeah. One of the things that we did with the boys, especially the one that was like, kind of more violent, is when you could see him getting tense, and if we could get him to figure it out, calm it down before it got escalated. It wasn't that he got a sticker for his chart. He got to give a sticker to everyone at his table that helped him. You know, that was patient with him. Oh, cool. And so, I mean, I think it's just little things like that that help. And yeah, it's, it's kind of a, yeah, it's just a great classroom. I love being a part of it. 

Lenora Edwards  24:25  

There are so many ways to keep that moving forward. The hero's idea that was so nice of you, that was such a great hero quality. What else makes a hero? And then going back to it, Oh, you were a hero the other day because you did this. Wow, that's so cool. And then helping them realize that the thank you is the gift, the acknowledgement of that is the appreciation of that heroic quality. Yes, definitely a sticker is totally a bonus, but really helping children understand that, to be able to receive that. Thank you. And this really gets into how we give and how we receive, because a lot of the time we can be taught, oh say thank you really quick, because that's what you're supposed to do, and you don't necessarily receive that thanks or they. Somebody is just passing it along, just to pass it along, and not a true, deep meaning of thank you for your help, you're offering not only the Thank you, but you're saying what they did, why you're saying thank you and what it meant to you, which really elaborates on it, and it doesn't become this row automatic thing that we do. So even heroes show appreciation for being appreciated. And that's a beautiful acknowledgement.

DJ Stutz  25:41  

It is. And I think we connected to almost, when you say you're sorry, you don't just go say sorry, you know, it's like, I'm sorry I hit you. I was not right to do and I'm not going to hit you anymore. Like, that's an apology, not just sorry, you know, yes, I think the same thing with Thank you. Well, thanks. Well for what? And so let them be specific on that, and that helps build them seeing the heroic actions of others as well as building them within themselves.

Lenora Edwards  26:12  

Could not agree with you more. 

DJ Stutz  26:16  

Yeah.  Now before we go, and I know we're getting close, but I wanted to take a few minutes and talk about, we kind of alluded to this earlier, but the whole thing of influencers and the online scene that's going on, kids very, very, very young are affected by influencers, and there are some that are quite nefarious and are reaching out to kids as young as two and three who are on the pad, whether it's kids YouTube or kids, you know, they have all these things for kids. So how are we helping our kids understand? Is this okay? Is this not okay? This is me, and I know I'm old, and I get it, but I just don't think kids should be on the iPads that young, you know.

Lenora Edwards  27:01  

And that it's very interesting, if you start to look into the growth and development aspects of the brain developing when it comes to tablets, when it comes to TVs, especially as our our phones are, you know, this is not the 1980s where I grew up. It is a completely different world. And always remember this, this device, our phones, our tablets, they are designed to keep us on there longer it's wired that way. So if you look at it, and if you might think, well, that's not very nice, well, if you look at the creators of the platforms, they're doing their job. They're keeping us on there longer they have our engagement, they have that deep understanding of the neuro connection of what our brain is doing and the reward system. So understanding that, and also understanding that, even if the CDC says or the guidelines say, This is what's recommended, understanding that would probably be go on the more conservative side, because there isn't all that much research out there just yet to find out how our brains are really shifting, but also understand that your child's brain development is best With social physical interaction, social emotional interaction. And even as DJ and I are having this conversation, yes, we are on a platform, we are also very engaged. This is a back and forth conversation. I'm not watching her. She's not watching me, as in sitting back. And there is a connection happening. And when we have children in front of tablets and devices and yes, even YouTube kids, it is a very passive interaction. Our brains grow and develop and thrive with active interaction, social, emotional, interactive, even if it's an interactive toy that they're touching and they're manipulating and they're playing and they've imaginative play. All these amazing things come from these toys. And even if it's a box and some crayons, these amazing things happen. It doesn't have to be the most elite, most expensive toy. And then, as we start to get into social media influencers, it really is something to say, what do you want your takeaway message to be, what do you want to share with your children about social media? What is ultimately, is it a good thing? And why is it a good thing? Why is it important? Why is it important? What are you showing them? Really think about it and as it integrates into your life, and it will allow yourself to have those guidelines, just like you have a guideline of you're going to bed at this time, allow yourself to have guidelines with your children when it comes to devices also,

DJ Stutz  29:49  

Yeah, and I think too. I don't know if you've heard this one, but growing up, I just remember hearing that Satan will tell 1000 truths to convince you of one lie. That's a good one. So, but I feel like a lot of that is so a lot of these things that the YouTube or the Tick Tock or whatever it is that and they'll gear it towards kids, and it, it may be some good information, it may be some things, but it's presented to in a way that it's so fast it affects their brain and understanding. It affects their ability to concentrate for long periods of time. It affects all of that. And so even though it may be good information that they're getting, the way it's being presented, can have alternative side effects, and they're very aware of those side effects and what those mean. And so when your kids are saying, well, this is my hero, or this is that. I'll use bluey as an example, very popular, and it's a cute show. I'm not gonna say it's not but one of the things I worry about, though, is that the kids can be I have to have it my way, and the parents are very passive in, Oh yeah, you can jump up and down on me for eight hours or do these things that it would hurt a human, because it's a cartoon for that to happen. And so if you're watching and bluey can be a very sweet I'm not saying it's not, but if you're watching that, I hope you're watching it with your kids, and then saying, so blue did that with his dad or her dad. I guess blue is a girl, so bluey did that with her dad. Is that an okay thing to do with your dad? Because bluey is their hero. And so many kids, Bluey is their hero. I don't even hear them. So, yeah, she has a little sister named bingo, and I don't hear them talking much about bingo either, but it's bluey. Bluey, blue and so I just wonder if we're asking questions, if we do allow them some time on that we often are using that as a babysitter as a way to I need to get this done. My mom would say, I got to get work done. Get outside right now. Where I am today, it was 30 below, so we're not sending our kids outside. Yeah. I mean, even if it's 10 degrees, bundle them up, go out and play, although then now we have to take into consideration where you live and is this a safer place? Where I live right now, send them outside. They can run for days and acres and whatever, and they're going to be fine. But if you're in Los Angeles or New York, you know you're not going to say, go outside and play like they used to, but to have a plan. Use that tablet once in a while, I guess, if you need to, but really plan ahead on some other things that they can do if they love Hulk. Let get them books about Hulk, or let them role play, get them costumes that they can dress up in and help them talk about what makes a hero. How can you be a hero?

Lenora Edwards  32:57  

I will add a quick note, when the pandemic, pandemic happened. A lot of parents, by default, had to obviously pay bills, work from home, do what you need to do completely. So I don't want this to be a judgment of any kind. And if you're using the iPad, okay, you're using the iPad, things happen. Life happens. I just understand to do what you can also to engage with them, socially and emotionally and physically. What happened during the pandemic, so many parents, so many guardians, were in a literally no win situation. They had to keep a roof over their head. Absolutely. They had to stay with their children. Absolutely. What we saw from that, the skyrocket of speech and language delays, not, I can't even say, quadrupled. It. Just can has continued to show that there was a huge drop in the speech and language development because these children needed social, emotional, physical interaction, and what they had was to no fault of their own, to no fault to the parents, was the iPad, was the TV. They were put in high chairs for hours on end because that that became the babysitter if you're not in the position, or if you're in the position where you can engage with your child more often than not, great. Use it to your advantage.

DJ Stutz  34:20  

Yes, yes. And when you do that when they're really young, it builds a foundational relationship of mom and dad. Are here for you. We love you. We engage with you. We're your teachers. We're your mentors, Mom and Dad, I hope you're your child's heroes, grandma and grandpa. Very much. So be a hero, aunts and uncles, be the heroes to those kids and let them see that. I would say, like, for every half hour that they spend, I would say, you should be spending at least 45 minutes, one on one, with them, you know, or maybe as a group. It's hard to do if you've got five kids. Yeah,

Lenora Edwards  34:59  

Yeah, Very much so, very much so.

DJ Stutz  35:01  

But engaging with them, they say that for every criticism, you should have four, oh yeah, three positives or six positives or something, yeah. I would say, for every minute, yeah, of time on that, then I would say, you know, three or four to one on the time that you spend and you being the hero and engaging God's life, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, well, I know we're even we even longer than we meant to go, because we just have such great conversation.

Lenora Edwards  35:37  

We do have such a great conversation. DJ, thank you so much. I'm gonna actually send you the Teddy story, and then pop in the show notes. Yeah,

DJ Stutz  35:47  

Yes, we'll get that in there. So everyone, if you like what you heard in our our conversation today, please rate review five stars is the number of stars that is appropriate, and tell a friend, share it, and we would love to be a part of it. You can always get a hold of us on Instagram and Facebook, if you just look for Imperfect Heroes, YouTube, Rumble, we're there Imperfect heroes, and you'll be able to be part of the conversation. And if you have ideas or questions, we'd love to address them too. So anyway, Lenora, you're gonna be back real soon, and we'll have more conversations. And so until then, let's find joy in parenting. See you guys. 

Thank you so much for sticking around to the end of today's episode of Imperfect Heroes. Parenting is truly one of the most rewarding journeys we can take. But let's face it, it can be incredibly challenging, and sometimes we make it harder on ourselves than it needs to be. The good news is that with a little bit of work up front, there are practical steps you can take to bring more peace and joy into your family life. I am passionate to share these strategies and insights with you. If you're ready to step on the paths of joyful, effective parenting, I invite you to schedule a family checkup. Just click on the calendar link in the show notes below. Schedule a time that works perfectly for you, and let's work together to create a more harmonious and happy environment and remember, every small step that you take today makes a big difference. So thank you again for joining us, and until next time, let's find joy in parenting.